New trails maps

[SIKSKIER]

Rivercoil,I just saw Cannons new $60 day rate and was very surprised.Cannon's one plus has always been that is was a much better value than other big mountains.My pass went up a low $30 to $475,which is still pretty cheap.
Don't bet on Cannon having much in improvements just because of a new Mt manager.His hands are tied by the budjet restraints of the State DRED.The former MM(Bill Roy) was a good friend and was very open about how the wheels turned.
On another note,I like the new trailmap cuz my house is now shown just below the pond at Mittersill.Can you see me waving from the deck?

[riverc0il]

Originally Posted by Greg

Don't count on it. It's almost certainly meant to help offset increased energy costs.

I was not counting on it, I was being facetious. Perhaps meant to off set energy costs which is understandable, but it may big the biggest increase this season in New England both in terms of percentage and actual dollars, at least from what I am aware of. Cannon was priced under $50 four years ago, IIRC.

[inhalexhale]

That's the new map, with the glades. (click for a larger version)

It's not too huge resolution-wise but there's a gladed area between Lower K and Milky Way (orange cross-hatch section). You guys get it before everyone else -- we haven't released it yet. Stay tuned for a press release!


Thanks!

[bluishgreen]

Originally Posted by riverc0il

I am doubtful about the improvements. I am skeptical this is not just the new GM coming in and making some serious changes. The biggest improvement Cannon needs, and has needed for a while, is a big boost in snow making. I don't recall any announcements this year indicating much is being improved in this category. The $18 mid-week jump is off the f'ing charts, unbelievable. Guess they just don't want people to ski there on Mondays and Fridays and the mountain will be residents only on Wednesdays. Who pays $60 to ski mid-week??

Cannon actually improved snowmaking a lot around 2003. However, all the natural and man-made snow in the world won't help when a 70MPH wind blows it off the mountain the next day. This is why they never make snow on Profile, even though it does have snowmaking capabilities. The new M-F prices are definitely a shocker, but I always get the B & B season pass, which is cheaper than five M-F lift tickets at Cannon/BW, plus works 7 days all the way to Christmas, and after the third week in March. And since Jay Peak is only $40 for anyone with a season pass from another resort, it's one of the cheapest ways to get that perk.

I attended a season kick-off get-together at Cannon yesterday (Sat). The GM gave a Powerpoint presentation--unfortunately, I missed the first part of it, but he was pushing Mittersill as a big part of things. His other big points were:
--Improving snowmaking--specifically, his philosophy was to not open trails unless there was at least 18" base after grooming. Although, again, I say it's the wind that causes the lack of snow on trails and icy conditions, and you can't change the weather.
--Improving "service" and "professionalism", rather than its historically bare-bones approach, and lack of organizational consistency (this was his sentiment, not mine, or at least the sentiment that I derived--I personally like Cannon's informal nature, albeit a bit disorganized). This also includes actually checking people's lift tickets, which Cannon is somewhat famous for not doing a lot of the time, and no doubt contributes to its losses over the years. You think an $18 increase is a lot--think of the freeloaders who now have a $60 increase!
--Marketing Cannon a lot more (his background is marketing-heavy, and it definitely shows) and especially pushing its local "secrets" like Mittersill, and Franconia State Park in general. Also, forming partnerships and sponsorships with companies.
--While I missed the beginning when he appeared to talk more specifics about Mittersill, he did allude back to things like "putting a lift over there" in the future, but still keeping everything natural, similar to MRG.

One thing is clear, is that Cannon is going to be changing more than ever before--some I agree with, and some I don't. It's easy to be cynical, but he seems like a good guy who genuinely wants to make Cannon financially independent while keeping its uniqueness, since there has been more and more pressure from the state to stop losing money or else privatization or shutdown. Although one annoyance--I do find the whole "Cannonista" thing really cheesy and against everything Cannon stands for, and definitely something that would only come from a marketing person.

[riverc0il]

Nothing new here. From my experience, Cannon has always been slow to open trails until a significant base has been laid down. I have been very critical of Cannon online in the past for slow opening of trails. There is no reason for an 18" base depth after grooming to open a trail except the steeper and rockier trails.

Regarding service and professionalism, ironically I believe Cannon has some of the best service and friendliest staff around. This is the last aspect of the mountain that needs fine tuning.

Also ironically, for a non-scan ski area, Cannon has some of the most active pass checkers in the business. You can not get on the tram without a check and I am often checked at the high speed quad. No need to check at the Cannonball. I am checked less frequently at the Zoomer but it happens often enough.

The marketing push is definitely on and is noticeable but Cannon has done partnerships and sponsorships for a while now (I think Audi has the car and they have parked vehicles on the slopes at times). Cannonista is perhaps the dumbest thing I have seen in New England marketing in a while but dumb does not necessarily mean not profitable as lots of people like dumb things.

Any ways, we'll see how it goes. It still remains to be seen how much time I will be spending at Cannon this season on the lifts, but I hope for good things.

[SKI-3PO]

Thanks for the early look at the Hunter map. Saw people skiing those glades last year - can't wait for the snow to try them out this year!

[bluishgreen]

Originally Posted by riverc0il

I really doubt Cannon is going to offer patrol coverage for Mitt. You can notice on the map that the boundary line is unchanged which suggests you are still very much on your own over there and hiking back if you get lost or go the wrong way.

According to the new GM yesterday, they are supposed to finally get the land swap done either during this season or sometime in 2008. Of course, with gov't red tape, nothing is guaranteed, but things are supposedly looking much better recently, which is why they are confident enough to actually show that Mittersill exists on the map now. The GM did speak of putting a lift over there in the future, while still maintaining its natural state (not sure if he meant no snowmaking/grooming, or just no grooming) although I have no idea if that is two years away or 10 years.

I find the whole Mittersill thing somewhat funny--I remember as a kid when Mittersill shutdown (I think around '80/'81) everyone's talking about Cannon's taking over and merging everything. Almost three decades later, it may actually happen, but I'll believe it when I actually see it.

[bluishgreen]

Originally Posted by riverc0il

Nothing new here. From my experience, Cannon has always been slow to open trails until a significant base has been laid down. I have been very critical of Cannon online in the past for slow opening of trails. There is no reason for an 18" base depth after grooming to open a trail except the steeper and rockier trails.

Regarding service and professionalism, ironically I believe Cannon has some of the best service and friendliest staff around. This is the last aspect of the mountain that needs fine tuning.

Also ironically, for a non-scan ski area, Cannon has some of the most active pass checkers in the business. You can not get on the tram without a check and I am often checked at the high speed quad. No need to check at the Cannonball. I am checked less frequently at the Zoomer but it happens often enough.

The marketing push is definitely on and is noticeable but Cannon has done partnerships and sponsorships for a while now (I think Audi has the car and they have parked vehicles on the slopes at times). Cannonista is perhaps the dumbest thing I have seen in New England marketing in a while but dumb does not necessarily mean not profitable as lots of people like dumb things.

Any ways, we'll see how it goes. It still remains to be seen how much time I will be spending at Cannon this season on the lifts, but I hope for good things.

I remember friends sneaking on Cannon lifts a lot while growing up, and everyone joking about it, but that was back in the '80's. I don't pay much attention nowadays, but still hear people talk about it--not sure whether it is still true or just a holdover reputation. I do remember not getting checked frequently on the Eagle Triple last year, but that's about it.

For the partnerships, they just meant more strategic ones (ie, bigger), and more of them then before. For instance, I think the Audi one was Lakes Region Audi, whereas they've now switched to Clay Auto Dealerships in the Boston area as their official dealership, which is a much bigger audience.

[AdironRider]

Ill second that Cannon has some of the best customer service in the biz. THe lifities, especially those on the zoomer lift are always friendly and true skiers, theyre always asking what the conditions are like, hows your day, etc. Also, on a pow day last march I left my fleece in the tram lodge right before I went back to college. When I came back for Easter and hit up Cannon on their last day open, someone actually went over to the closed and locked down tram lodge and rooted around over there for almost 2 hours till they found it. Now thats service!

However, in my three years as a season pass holder I have never once had my pass checked on any lift excluding the tram, and even then they just look to see if you have a cannon pass, hell it could be a lift ticket from three weeks ago and they wouldnt care. Not once have I been checked on the HSQ, zoomer, etc. They had to have been losing money that way.

[snoseek]

Originally Posted by bvibert

Wow! That does seem really steep! Well at least pass holders will have the place to themselves mid-week..

Trust me, they already do.


I can't beleive 60 dollars. I love cannon but also realize that the mountain is pretty basic and that seems damn high. I guess the B+B midweek pass is even a better value now.

Edit-anyone know if they cleaned out kinsman glade?