how often do you wax

[Trekchick]

Originally Posted by Marc

Well, the amount of thinking one puts into a certain subject depends on the level of interest and the potential benefits I guess. It's certainly rare that I'm accused of thinking too much. And I agree that what you're doing makes you happy, then by all means continue. I'm trying to educate myself here and also further the discussion so that we all might become more knowledgable. I can't imagine anyone would think ill of that goal.

If you want me to stop asking questions, then I'll respect your request, but if not, I'm curious to find out where you learned what you know about about ski base material and what you've written so far. I'm honestly not trying to be an ass, I'm just curious. I'm like a three year old, just when you think I've finished asking questions, I'll ask another.

Marc, I'm not bothered by the questions. Not at all.
Where do I get my knowledge?
Some from the beginnings of trial and error.
Some from a friend who worked in a ski shop.
A lot from asking questions, and really paying attention to the shop pros when I took my skis in for work.
Some, but not much from reading ski mags
TONS, from Alpinord (Terry) on Epicski.
He has really amp'ed up the Ski tuning forum area on Epic and is eager to answer questions gallore. Very knowledgeable. He is one of the owners of Slidewright.

Ask away! If I dont know, I'll try to find out!

[o3jeff]

Oh well screw taking them for a tune and wax then until someone can post something scientific that it will indeed help the bases in the long run.

This is kinda like debating on when to change the oil in your car....

[Trekchick]

Originally Posted by Marc

Oh come on, is curiosity really such a bad thing? We should all strive to become more knowledgeable, which means asking more questions. And not accepting at face value what wax companies and ski shops tell us, since they're not exactly unbiased sources.

Did you ever spray Pam cooking spray on your sled when you were a kid?
Sometimes fun stuff is just that simple.

[severine]

Originally Posted by Trekchick

Severine, its more about the longevity of the bases before it becomes necessary to grind than it is about feel. If you clean your ski bases and keep a good quality coat of wax on them, you'll avoid base burn,which means you will not likely have to do a grind for a looooong time.

I use a stone to touch up burrs on my edges but I dont' tune them thoroughly very often because, IMHO it takes a lot of material off. Once or twice a year at most for tuning(outside of the basic edge clean up)

At least my tuning frequency isn't in question then. I'll admit that lack of time and space just make it easier to ignore waxing. Nowhere in our tiny apartment to do it ourselves, and no time to tackle a task like that even if I had space. (Although I'm sure all my time on AZ doesn't help in the time department .)

Originally Posted by Marc

I'm like a three year old, just when you think I've finished asking questions, I'll ask another.

One of the many ways you're like a 3-year-old, Marc.

Originally Posted by Trekchick

Did you ever spray Pam cooking spray on your sled when you were a kid?
Sometimes fun stuff is just that simple.

Makes me think of that scene in Christmas Vacation when Clark waxes up that saucer. LOL!

Originally Posted by o3jeff

Oh well screw taking them for a tune and wax then until someone can post something scientific that it will indeed help the bases in the long run.

This is kinda like debating on when to change the oil in your car....

I think Brian does that even less often than he has our skis waxed. We won't go there....

[Trekchick]

Originally Posted by severine

Makes me think of that scene in Christmas Vacation when Clark waxes up that saucer. LOL! ....

Exactly!!!
Can you imagine if we'd had these high tech waxes back when we had our sleds as kids?
Fun Stuff!

Severine, if you want something simple you can do in a small place, look into the paste wax's.
Like the one on Slighwright here
Or the Swix version, which I've used with some success also.

They just smear on and you rub them out with a plastic brush or a scotch pad, and head for the hill.
Quick and easy way to keep the skis sliding between hard wax applications.
A tub of this paste wax goes a loooong way.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Trekchick

Marc, I'm not bothered by the questions. Not at all.
Where do I get my knowledge?
Some from the beginnings of trial and error.
Some from a friend who worked in a ski shop.
A lot from asking questions, and really paying attention to the shop pros when I took my skis in for work.
Some, but not much from reading ski mags
TONS, from Alpinord (Terry) on Epicski.
He has really amp'ed up the Ski tuning forum area on Epic and is eager to answer questions gallore. Very knowledgeable. He is one of the owners of Slidewright.

That's great if that's enough for you. I just want my information to come with someone who can explain the "why" as well as the "what." Trial and error will give you answers when the results are obvious, like which wax glides best under what conditions....

Answers to questions without immediatley discernable results I'd prefer to be answered by someone formally edjucated in the subject. How do you know polyethylene has pores? If it is an extremely hydrophobic material, such as it is, how could it absorb and solid paritculate like dirt which is much bigger by several orders of magnitude than a molecule of water? If PE is nearly 15 times more abrasion resistant than carbon steel (from wikipedia) why would snow roughen it at all? ...Unless you might think steel would be roughened by snow. I tend to think not.

Can you tell me exactly what happens to the material when it gets "base burn"?

Why is it necesary to "structure" (aka, sand) ones base and how much difference does it make? Can anyone quantify it? Has there been any controlled, neutral testing done to support anyone's opinion on the matter?

I think if people want to wax for better glide, if that matters to them, that's great. Sharpen the edges for better hold on hard snow and ice? Makes perfect sense. Lots of other stuff I read about bases just doesn't make sense. The materials they use (either UHMWPE or HDPE) are not mystery materials. We know a lot about PE and its properties. At least in the case of HDPE, it's the same stuff milk jugs are made from (in case anyone didn't know).

UHMWPE is used to make sails, spectra (dyneema), bullet proof vests, artificial joints, etc. It has a coefficient of friction on par with teflon, 15 times more abrasion resistant than carbon steel, almost twice as abrasion resistant as stainless steel. Extremely non reactive. Self lubricating and wear resistant. Not especially resistant to high temperature. Resistant to stress cracking. It's a thermoplastic meaning it can melt to liquid and return to solid with experiencing a chemical change. Typically sheets like those made for ski bases are sintered.

It just would seem to make sense to me to, since its only application is not for the base of a ski, learn about the material from more sources than those in the ski industry, especially those who stand to benefit by pedalling potentially inaccurate or nonsensical information....

[wa-loaf]

Originally Posted by Marc

At least in the case of HDPE, it's the same stuff milk jugs are made from (in case anyone didn't know).

Does that mean I can melt down milk jugs instead of buying p-tex to repair my bases?

[Marc]

Originally Posted by wa-loaf

Does that mean I can melt down milk jugs instead of buying p-tex to repair my bases?

You could if your bases were HDPE, absolutely. Most skis that are not extemely cheap use UHMWPE, for which P-tex is just a trade name. I don't know if HDPE would bond to UHMWPE or not... it might actually. From what I gather, the difference between the two is a result of the lenght of the polyethylene chains, and the chains are held to each other by the Van der Walls forces (weak, molecule to molecule bonds, the reason water has surface tension and aligns as a crystal when a solid). It probably just wouldn't be as strong as using UHMWPE.

[jack97]

Originally Posted by Marc

It just would seem to make sense to me to, since its only application is not for the base of a ski, learn about the material from more sources than those in the ski industry, especially those who stand to benefit by pedalling potentially inaccurate or nonsensical information....

It gives me something to do in the basement.... you know get away from the love ones


I agree with Mark on this one, I've been keeping my rock skis in the car all season long...up to the warmest days in spring, no waxing just keeping the edges sharp, no problems yet. My hidden motive is to ruin those skis and start another for the rocks but those suckers are tuff.

[Trekchick]

Originally Posted by Marc

That's great if that's enough for you. I just want my information to come with someone who can explain the "why" as well as the "what." Trial and error will give you answers when the results are obvious, like which wax glides best under what conditions.............................

It just would seem to make sense to me to, since its only application is not for the base of a ski, learn about the material from more sources than those in the ski industry, especially those who stand to benefit by pedalling potentially inaccurate or nonsensical information....

Well, alrighty then!
If that floats your boat, then you just go right ahead and study the quantum physics of ski materials and the infinite possibilities of things that can effect the bases. While you're getting a crease in your forehead, I'll be getting some slope time.