Auto tires for winter driving

[deadheadskier]

Originally Posted by tjf67

First off the audi had all season tires on it not AT. Second audi 4wd system is one of the best. You sure it was not driver error. I had an A4 that was one of the best vehicles i have ever had in the snow. Was better than the my rover, wrangler and grand.
I am thinking driver error on your part

Dude, I lived in Vermont for 11 out of 14 years between when I was 16 and age 30. Trust me, I know how to drive in snow. Since I got my license, these are the cars I've owned and what type of tires on them for winter and I'll rank them in order of what performed best

1988 Acura Legend with snows (2)
1988 VW Fox with snows (5)
1982 Honda Accord with snows (1) - suprisingly better than the Acura I think due to manual transmission
1995 Ford Explorer with AT (3) - though the Explorer was #1 in deep snow
2000 Audi A6 with AS (4)
2007 Hyundai Sonata with AS (6)


I'm not thinking driver error on my part, I'm thinking arrogance on YOUR part. As you see, I've driven all kinds of cars with all kinds of tires. I've shared my experiences, I've got 16 years driving experience to base an opinion off of and I'll stick to it. FWD with snows has treated me better than AWD or 4WD with all seasons / all terrain. The only instace where that wasn't the case was the VW

I'm done arguing. Why don't you AWD drivers go take your cars out to a rally race or something instead of beating it down our throats how YOU'RE right and I or river is wrong. I'm not saying I'm right, you're wrong. Just sharing my experiences and opinion gathered from them.

[Marc]

Deadhead, tire width is another factor that comes into play, something no one else here has mentioned yet. The A6 has WIDE tires, even for it's increased weight and by comparison your Honda had skinny ass tires. The tire width to car weight ratio makes a difference driving in snow. I suspect this is one of the reasons my Subie does very well in snow with all seasons. Same weight as the S4 but has 195's rather than 225's.

Another point of order, most AWD systems today perform pretty close to the same, and are relatively invisible to the driver. While I do think the Torsen center diff Audi uses is probably the least likely to fail, nearly all systems use the brakes to control traction and "guide" torque flow to the wheel with the most traction.

Annoying if you ask me.

I'd prefer an AWD system with no electronic aids and manually locking front, center and rear differentials.

[deadheadskier]

good point on the tire width

[Marc]

Other elements to the equation include engine power output and torque output curves, type of transmission, transmission gearing, final gearing, chassis weight distribution, total vehicle weight, suspension... there are probably some more I'm forgetting.

To add some more fuel to the fire, with a competent driver, I think a manual transmission will far outperform an automatic transmission in the snow, all else equal. There have been a few times where I would have been very stuck if I didn't have the ability to select a higher gear manually.

[deadheadskier]

Originally Posted by Marc

I think a manual transmission will far outperform an automatic transmission in the snow, all else equal.

Agreed and not just in snow.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by deadheadskier

Agreed and not just in snow.

Good point, that qualifier was not necessary.

[mlctvt]

Originally Posted by tjf67

I will take my awd with at tires and run circles around any car with 2wd with snow tires. They probaly had my mom in the awd vehicle and tony stewart with 2wd snow tires.

This simply is not true. You may think it does better. Read the article- it scientifically measured performance . Aceleration, braking and skidpad numbers.

EDIT- Sorry I just saw you said AT tires, the article I mention compared ALL SEASON tires on AWD cars to the exact same car offered with 2WD and SNOW tires.

[snoseek]

Disclaimer-this is only my uneducated opinion and experience but.....


20,000 dollars is a lot of money to pay for peice of mind I think. I won't argue that audi/subie/whatever are a great ride but if getting through the snow is the very sole purpose for buying one than it seems like a huge waste of money. Not trying to put down anyones ride, because if I had more money-I sure as $hit would upgrade from my civic.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by snoseek

Disclaimer-this is only my uneducated opinion and experience but.....


20,000 dollars is a lot of money to pay for peice of mind I think. I won't argue that audi/subie/whatever are a great ride but if getting through the snow is the very sole purpose for buying one than it seems like a huge waste of money. Not trying to put down anyones ride, because if I had more money-I sure as $hit would upgrade from my civic.

<- Paid $7,000

[riverc0il]

tjf67, it is cool, we are talking apples and oranges here. I am making my remarks in regards to snows versus all seasons. I have no experience with AT tires but I assume they bridge the gap between the two and probably give the edge to the AWD vehicle. FWIW, I plan to make my next vehicle a Subaru (with snow tires of course), so I am not arguing based on an anti-AWD platform, but rather from the perspective that people often make the wrong choices in regards to drive type and tire type compared to their needs. My needs are being a storm and powder day chaser and backcountry skier looking to access hairy unplowed roads with restrictive parking... FWD with snows gets the job done but still has its limits. My biggest point of contention is for the average skier and skiing family, AWD with all seasons makes them feel safer but is "often times" (not always, but more often than not, IMO) inferior to many FWD vehicles with snows. No experience with AT so I will defer to your judgment in that regard.