Auto tires for winter driving

[tjf67]

Originally Posted by riverc0il

tjf67, it is cool, we are talking apples and oranges here. I am making my remarks in regards to snows versus all seasons. I have no experience with AT tires but I assume they bridge the gap between the two and probably give the edge to the AWD vehicle. FWIW, I plan to make my next vehicle a Subaru (with snow tires of course), so I am not arguing based on an anti-AWD platform, but rather from the perspective that people often make the wrong choices in regards to drive type and tire type compared to their needs. My needs are being a storm and powder day chaser and backcountry skier looking to access hairy unplowed roads with restrictive parking... FWD with snows gets the job done but still has its limits. My biggest point of contention is for the average skier and skiing family, AWD with all seasons makes them feel safer but is "often times" (not always, but more often than not, IMO) inferior to many FWD vehicles with snows. No experience with AT so I will defer to your judgment in that regard.

We were talking about two different types of tires. AT are more for on road/off road. An AT tire is not going to work as well as a snow tire on snow and ice but plenty sufficient for anything we see. I have taken my truck up and over passes in the ADK on seasonal roads that are closed . Fom Keene Valley over into Ausable if anyone is familiar with that road.. They have the Deep tread but the rubber is not as soft and the actual tread is not as aggressive. The AT is better for highway and because the rubber is a little harder you dont get as much road noice or as much wear.
You are correct about 2wd. When My truck wears out I will switch to 2wd because of gas prices and most likely will get snows for a few months in the winter.

[WJenness]

Originally Posted by deadheadskier

(snip)
1988 Acura Legend with snows (2)
1988 VW Fox with snows (5)
1982 Honda Accord with snows (1) - suprisingly better than the Acura I think due to manual transmission
1995 Ford Explorer with AT (3) - though the Explorer was #1 in deep snow
2000 Audi A6 with AS (4)
2007 Hyundai Sonata with AS (6)
(snip)

I'm not going to get into the tires debate other than to say this is my first winter with AWD (bought an 2004 A4 3.0Q M6 in May) and thus far, I love it...

But I am going to observe... From an A6 to a Hyundai Sonata? Ouch... I'm sorry man.

I can't see myself buying a non-Audi at this point.

I'm a fanboy... I admit it.

-w

[koreshot]

I have owned 4 cars, fwd and awd and tried a few various brands of snow tires and my thinking about this topic has evolved to something like this.

AWD brings very little to the safety story. It doesn't help you brake or turn any faster or any sharper when you are trying to avoid an accident, but it does let you accelerate and climb better in reduced traction situations like snow.

So for absolute snow driving safety - not getting into an accident or skidding off a road kind of duty: FWD with snow tires is hands down, no questions asked, safer than an AWD car on non-snow tires. Anyone that will argue that an AWD car with all season tires will brake and generate better lateral traction better than a FWD with snows is either dumb or very uniformed and you should have their head examined.

For dependable snow travel with lots of hills, steeps, deep snow and climbing: AWD with a good set of all-seasons might be better than a snow tire FWD.

So then it becomes a balancing act - do you want basic point a to point b safe transportation in snow on average public roads, or will you need the car to climb a scary drive way or get you to work before the snow plows came out, even if it reduces emergency handling type of safety.

I chose the best of both worlds. A medium size wagon with good ground clearance, a basic 4wd system and solid snow tires. If I had to give AWD or snow tires up, I would give AWD up in a heartbeat. Safety first... so what if I get to the ski hill a bit later. At least I got there.

[Marc]

While my good buddy kore makes a great point, and is the reason often see AWD and 4WD vehicles off the road because the idiot driver is clueless in this regard, don't over look the virtue of being able to accelerate to avoid an accident as well. Perhaps not an overrulling factor, but it is at least a mitigating one...

[tjf67]

Originally Posted by koreshot

I have owned 4 cars, fwd and awd and tried a few various brands of snow tires and my thinking about this topic has evolved to something like this.

AWD brings very little to the safety story. It doesn't help you brake or turn any faster or any sharper when you are trying to avoid an accident, but it does let you accelerate and climb better in reduced traction situations like snow.

So for absolute snow driving safety - not getting into an accident or skidding off a road kind of duty: FWD with snow tires is hands down, no questions asked, safer than an AWD car on non-snow tires. Anyone that will argue that an AWD car with all season tires will brake and generate better lateral traction better than a FWD with snows is either dumb or very uniformed and you should have their head examined.

For dependable snow travel with lots of hills, steeps, deep snow and climbing: AWD with a good set of all-seasons might be better than a snow tire FWD.



So then it becomes a balancing act - do you want basic point a to point b safe transportation in snow on average public roads, or will you need the car to climb a scary drive way or get you to work before the snow plows came out, even if it reduces emergency handling type of safety.

I chose the best of both worlds. A medium size wagon with good ground clearance, a basic 4wd system and solid snow tires. If I had to give AWD or snow tires up, I would give AWD up in a heartbeat. Safety first... so what if I get to the ski hill a bit later. At least I got there.

Dont snow tires perform horrible on dry pavement?

[Greg]

Every time I try to open this thread, this window keeps popping up:

[tjf67]

Originally Posted by Greg

Every time I try to open this thread, this window keeps popping up:

I kinda like talking about this stuff. I learned a few things. Not like when I watch your ski vids.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Greg

Every time I try to open this thread, this window keeps popping up:

Kore gets the same thing whenever he opens a thread about bump skiing.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by tjf67

I learned a few things. Not like when I watch your ski vids.

Not surprising really. After all, you do primarily ski Iceface and we all know there are no bumps there...

[tjf67]

Originally Posted by Greg

Not surprising really. After all, you do primarily ski Iceface and we all know there are no bumps there...

Speaking of bumps I was out the last couple on nights on wilderness building bumps for the competitions comming to town. I think you call it seeding. You should come up and try them out might be a little steeper than you are used to.