Let's focus on Suburus for a second.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Originally Posted by campgottagopee

That'a funny---I think it's much nicer looking than previous car. Thought it really looked like a box before, and now car has some nice lines to it.

Originally Posted by BeanoNYC

Agreed!

x3!

[MichaelJ]

From Edmunds:

Fuel economy is much the same as before, with an EPA-rated 20 mpg city/26 mpg highway for the normally aspirated engine and 19 mpg city/24 mpg highway for the turbo.

Sigh. I continue to dream that in another 3-5 years when my Outback is ready for replacement, that by then Subaru will have a hybrid or other technology to get that mileage to at least the 30's if not 40's. I love my car to bits, but given the cost of gas...

[wa-loaf]

Originally Posted by mlctvt

much uglier than the old car.
Plus the XT no longer comes with a manual transmission.

Disagree about the looks, but it is sad that it's getting harder and harder to find good manual transmission cars.

Originally Posted by MichaelJ

From Edmunds:
Sigh. I continue to dream that in another 3-5 years when my Outback is ready for replacement, that by then Subaru will have a hybrid or other technology to get that mileage to at least the 30's if not 40's. I love my car to bits, but given the cost of gas...

Diesel boxer coming at you in 2010: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...l_first_drive/

[campgottagopee]

Originally Posted by MichaelJ

From Edmunds:
Sigh. I continue to dream that in another 3-5 years when my Outback is ready for replacement, that by then Subaru will have a hybrid or other technology to get that mileage to at least the 30's if not 40's. I love my car to bits, but given the cost of gas...

Like WA-LOAF said, think diesle. I'm not convinced that Hybrid is the way to go.

[hammer]

Originally Posted by campgottagopee

Like WA-LOAF said, think diesle. I'm not convinced that Hybrid is the way to go.

Neither am I...

I read that hybrid batteries have a lifespan of somewhere near 100K miles and that they can cost $3000 to replace. If this is correct, with this guaranteed "maintenance cost" plus the additional up-front costs, I don't see hybrids being much of a bargain even if gas costs go much higher than they are now.

Of course, diesel is $1 more per gallon where I live so diesels aren't all that cost effective at this point either...

[mlctvt]

The consensus on the Subaru forums is that most preferred the old car since it was unique, but everyone agrees that this new "SUV" will sell better than the old "CAR" at least to Americans. The lack of a manual transmission is pushing enthusiasts
to the Outback or WRX, or to other manufacturers.

[campgottagopee]

Originally Posted by mlctvt

The consensus on the Subaru forums is that most preferred the old car since it was unique, but everyone agrees that this new "SUV" will sell better than the old "CAR" at least to Americans. The lack of a manual transmission is pushing enthusiasts
to the Outback or WRX, or to other manufacturers.

I didn't find the old car unique at all, but that's just me. I found it quite boring.

Can still get a stick not just w/ a turbo. Hard to find sticks in most any "performance" SUV's nowadays.

[mlctvt]

The "unique" part was it was labeled an SUV but it actually was just a tall car. Subaru was the first to come out with a car, um SUV like this. May other brands copied and now offer tall cars too.
If I had to buy a SUV, and I don't because my Legacy GT wagon is actually larger and hauls more than most small SUVs, the first one I'd consider was the Forester XT manual. Probably because it was the most un-SUV like SUV. It actually handled quite well and that's probably why many publications rated it the best small SUV for years. The new '09 is just like every other one now. Many say, why buy the Forester when you can get a small SUV from Toyota (RAV-4), Honda CRV or Element, etc?

[MichaelJ]

Oooh, diesel Outback. Interesting. More expensive fuel but 50mpg is still a positive move environmental-wise. I wonder how that diesel engine's going to fare, though, trying to start it at a trailhead in the mountains at 5 or 10 degrees below zero (F).

[bvibert]

Originally Posted by MichaelJ

Oooh, diesel Outback. Interesting. More expensive fuel but 50mpg is still a positive move environmental-wise. I wonder how that diesel engine's going to fare, though, trying to start it at a trailhead in the mountains at 5 or 10 degrees below zero (F).

Better bring a backup generator to run the block heater just in case...