New skiis for "out west"

Originally Posted by dmc

your still going to encounter terrain that those fats will be down right dangerous on...

JMHO....

I never thought that the fats would be dangerous, but please elaborate on that point.

[dmc]

Originally Posted by beswift

I never thought that the fats would be dangerous, but please elaborate on that point.

I wouldnt want to be on a pair of fats while suddenly finding myself pinned on a steep icey face ...

Gotcha.

[skiguide]

lol - this is a great thread for someone who's just left the ice coast for powder pastures. the first thing you'll notice when you move out here is that people are gear junkies.

one pair is not enough. it's all about the ski quiver here.

as mentioned, an all mountain ski, a pow ski, and an AT/tele/BC setup are pretty much the norm. maybe throw in a snowboard for added variety. I also have XC skis in my gear room. next up: mountain bikes & dirt bikes.

Originally Posted by beswift

Anyway, if you don't have any experience with powder and average abilities, you won't be so excited about it after your first deep powder day. The thing to remember would be that in Colorado, you don't ski powder all that often as they would like you to think. Then don't go throwing a lot of money at the problem if you find skiing powder not what it has been hyped. Colorado doesn't get that many deep powder days to warrant new equipment like Utah does. On top of that shaped skiis were introduced mostly as a better powder ski.

I TOTALLY disagree, except for the fact that it may take a few days to get used to deep powder. it's just so different, and an adjustment lots of people that i've met who transplanted out here made themselves, and now they are powderhounds. I think my CO friends would also disagree about being able to find deep pow too, but that's because a lot of them find it in the BC. and many make weekend treks over here to ski our pow, cause its' not that far, so yea, it's a good thing they have a quiver of skis to choose from.

with regards to the shaped ski being introduced as abetter pow ski, i don't think so. better carving was the primary shift in that trend. shaped skis with a small waist measurement under 70mm for example, are not better pow skis than a mid fat to fat ski. you need a wider platform all around for max. float.

Originally Posted by dmc

But normally even on a out west pow day - your still going to encounter terrain that those fats will be down right dangerous on...

gotta DISAGREE here too. Sorry, but my new Sugar Daddys carve ridiculously well, and coming from the east, your biggest strength is that you can hold an edge on ice. rode up the lift the other day with some other guy on Sugars, and he was like, "nice skis, girl, how you like them? " - loves 'em, I say, then he responds, yea but they don't carve that well... i was just like, um, i've not had any problems with that. my BF said after we got off the lift that obviously hte guy just didn't know how to rail 'em like i did, cause he'd never seen me have a problem carving on them.

You wouldn't believe what these guys call ice out here though - not a bit of clear/yellow patches down straight to rocks in sight - just groomed hard packed - nice packed pow to us east coasters. perfect cruisin' conditions.

the trick is just keeping your pow skis sharp enough to do that when necessary. most western skiers just don't do that, but that goes back to the quiver idea, if it's not a pow day, they don't usually bring out the un-tuned fats.

[skiguide]

Originally Posted by powers

You might want to think about an AT set up for the BC. Odds are that anything you run here will be fine for any inbounds skiing on a normal day. ...I will also recommend getting some avy training and equipement. Theres nothing wrong with being safe and only people that can trust you will show you the goods. I wish I was going to Colorado

BTW, right on, powers!

Avy training & gear is a must, not even just for BC skiing, there have been a lot of inbounds slides out here in the last few days, and still, great knowledge and safety in numbers is always a good thing.

[JD]

Yea, I ski everyday on a ski that is 91mm under foot. No reason to go any more skinny. I have noticed that some "powder" skis are too soft to really mach on groomers, so I prefer a stiffer fattie that might noe be as responsive in super light pow, but will still float and bust crud and be stable at high speed. The Sugar Daddies are a nice stiff fattie. I also am not a believer in traditional shaped carving skis are pow skis. They are way too hooky at speed. 121-91-108 Stockli DPs with some 05 freerides have been perfect for me this season on hard pack, or in pow. I do have a pair of axiomes for those rare 18-24 inch days, but any of you that don't beilve in fat skies for 6 or more inches of snow just don't know. Sure, you CAN ski pow on some old straight 207s, but why. Fat skis allow you to relax, properly weight your ski to initiate turns, not wind-sheild-wiper and ride on your tails to keep your tips up...and in crud or anything less then perfect pow, keeping the tips out w/o having to think about it adds to the enjoyment greatly.

[dmc]

cool... You seem to really know your stuff... Must be nice to score Utaaaaah BC....

What I worry about with fats - and I'm mostly refering to back country stuff here - is someone who doesnt have as much experience as you...

Get on fats and sure they ride great in powder but how would they react in narrow trees? or picking through a rock band? Traversing hardpack? Blasting through avi crud? Laying them straight for 5 meters to get through a steep tight spot?
I don't really know cause I only board deep snow now... I'm just assuming that they are not as good in conditions other then powder and in specific harsh conditions that really depend on an edge to survive..... My GF road a pair at Powder Mountain last year - she hated them - they looked old though - they were RD's.... Switched back to her X-Screams...

Is there a learnig curve on fats?? Like I said - I really don't know - I'm toally talking out of my ass here

PS: My quiver includes a Burton Splitboard... I use it all the time here in the Catskills... Follow my telemark friends around...

Originally Posted by skiguide

gotta DISAGREE here too. Sorry, but my new Sugar Daddys carve ridiculously well, and coming from the east, your biggest strength is that you can hold an edge on ice. rode up the lift the other day with some other guy on Sugars, and he was like, "nice skis, girl, how you like them? " - loves 'em, I say, then he responds, yea but they don't carve that well... i was just like, um, i've not had any problems with that. my BF said after we got off the lift that obviously hte guy just didn't know how to rail 'em like i did, cause he'd never seen me have a problem carving on them.

You wouldn't believe what these guys call ice out here though - not a bit of clear/yellow patches down straight to rocks in sight - just groomed hard packed - nice packed pow to us east coasters. perfect cruisin' conditions.

the trick is just keeping your pow skis sharp enough to do that when necessary. most western skiers just don't do that, but that goes back to the quiver idea, if it's not a pow day, they don't usually bring out the un-tuned fats.

[noreaster]

Rossignol B3 or Salomon Pocket Rockets for over the knee deep powder days. Don't forget your powder cords on powder days so you don't loose your skis. Powder cords go on your ski brakes and tuck up under your pant leg.

When there is no deep powder use your current skis.

For AT I would recommend the Fritschi Diamir Freeride Alpine Touring Binding, which can be used with your current alpine downhill boots. This Fritschi regular ski breaks wil fit on the 95mm wide Rossignol B3 with a slight bend in the brakes.

The Naxo is new and a friend of mine had his Naxo AT binding break falling off the work bench during mounting. He sent it back and purchased a Fritschi.

http://www.backcountry.com/store/pro...rd=at+bindings

[JD]

I really don't know that much about skis. But what I know, I know.

I moved up here as an MTBer, started skiing on mid fats. Hated the way I had to rock into the back of my boots to keep my tips up in crud, heavy or grabby snow, couldn't stand watching Boarders ride by so relaxed. So I got some fat skis. Wolf Cold Smokes in a 168. Awesome ski for woods, variable conditions and anything but hard packed groomer. Barely any side cut, arched huge turns and was nice and stiff. I skied the axiomes and loved them for good snow days, but ultimately decided that 110 was too fat for an every day ski on the east coast. Got a good deal on some DPs and put the Freerides on them, perfect all day, every day ski for me.

One thing I have noticed about fats and people switching over is this. If you have an intermediate skier who is still into the Shooosh style of sking, and people who don't really carve a turn, but muscle them around with their torso, these types of people will have problems.

The Shoosher will have a hard time pushing their tails around and skidding turns in deep or heavy snow, because the ski has so much surface area. So they get sat down.

Also, older fatties, like the Axiome or Wolf, were HEAVY because of all the extra material. So if you were trying to pull the ski thru a turn, or turn from the back seat, they were slow to bring around. However, if you stay up on your boards and weighted forward they ski just like a normal ski.

I guess this is what you mean by good skiers can ski anything, but it's jus so much more work, I'd rather take a bunch of mellow runs, then fewer more intense runs.

I love watching old Warren millers of guys on bump skis shredding deep snow. Pretty amazing.

Originally Posted by skiguide

lol - this is a great thread for someone who's just left the ice coast for powder pastures. the first thing you'll notice when you move out here is that people are gear junkies.

one pair is not enough. it's all about the ski quiver here.

as mentioned, an all mountain ski, a pow ski, and an AT/tele/BC setup are pretty much the norm. maybe throw in a snowboard for added variety. I also have XC skis in my gear room. next up: mountain bikes & dirt bikes.



I TOTALLY disagree, except for the fact that it may take a few days to get used to deep powder. it's just so different, and an adjustment lots of people that i've met who transplanted out here made themselves, and now they are powderhounds. I think my CO friends would also disagree about being able to find deep pow too, but that's because a lot of them find it in the BC. and many make weekend treks over here to ski our pow, cause its' not that far, so yea, it's a good thing they have a quiver of skis to choose from.

with regards to the shaped ski being introduced as abetter pow ski, i don't think so. better carving was the primary shift in that trend. shaped skis with a small waist measurement under 70mm for example, are not better pow skis than a mid fat to fat ski. you need a wider platform all around for max. float.

You are right to a point. First of all, some guy who has decided to move to Boulder without any real experience there might decide to move back to the Icecoast in short time. I wouldn't want to go out and buy a lot of new equipment and not use it much. I'm sure he wouldn't either. I was guessing about why shaped were popular, but in actuality, I didn't catch the fever for them. I skied shaped last Spring, liked my new Volkls, but went back to straight to start this season off. I love my straight skiis. I have taken one pair out west and had no trouble with them. I think you have missed the point about Shaped skiis. They make carving easier, they don't carve better. A skier may carve better with them. I find that one get's lazy with the Shaped skiis. I have no complaints about the way my straight carve a turn. In fact, I believe that they are better on ice than the shaped. The reviewers cited my Volant's as >>an Ice Skate<< and I find they are just that. It just seems to me that when you can put an additional 35 cm of edge to the ice, you have a better grip to it. My French built Hart SLX's (the '88 Olympic ski) are a slalom ski with a wide soft shovel and stiff narrow tail. It skiis powder well. I'm sure my Colorado built Volant slalom will be fun in powder. I took the Elan Comprex Titanium out west and loved it. I started out there with a K-2 610 Recreational ski and adapted to powder quite easily. I had a Quiver of skiis in the East and took it West. At one time I owned 14 pairs of skiis, cross-country and downhill. I travelled with most of them, East and West. I used to try and use every pair in a year, but it was hard. After a while, it was too oppressive. Marx said that Capitalism builds unrealistic (I'm not sure of the exact word he used as he was German) needs. I got to the point that I had more skiis than I could use. If I go back out west again, perhaps I'll pick up one of these Fat boys, but I still don't think that there's a lot of pressure to do so. I don't even think there is any reason to start a shaped quiver. Futhermore, if I spend any time out west, I would prabably go back to telemark skiing. So,if it is a question of advice, I'ld stick to keeping your Icecoast skiis and take up Telemark. The only drawback to that would be that you must put in a lot of days of skiing to avoid thigh burn.

Originally Posted by JD

One thing I have noticed about fats and people switching over is this. If you have an intermediate skier who is still into the Shooosh style of sking, and people who don't really carve a turn, but muscle them around with their torso, these types of people will have problems..


The Shoosher will have a hard time pushing their tails around and skidding turns in deep or heavy snow, because the ski has so much surface area. So they get sat down.

First of all, I have no idea what Shooshing is. Second, I have heard people complaining about powder skiing after they have been skiing more than I have observed their troubles in it. Usually, newbies to deep powder have this illusion put in their heads that it doesn't have any density at all, that turning in it will be effortless. This comes from the hype and enthusiasm of returning travellers and the tourist industry. Most of these people are good hardpack skiers who carve their turns. I used to think that the only way to ski powder was to shift your weight to the back seat as you put it, keeping your tips and shovels up. Then I skied with my cousin, a native Vermonter and son of a Patroller who was skiing soon after walking. He didn't change his style at all. He put his weight fully over his tips with a long, straight ski and virtually flew down the deep powder at Alta. Of course a guy who skids his turns on icy hardpack will get into trouble when he goes to deep powder. It just doesn't allow the skid!!! Most Eastern skiers learn to ice skate before they try skiing. Hockey stops, skidding turns, ect. all result from trying to use the skills of skating on ski slopes. Of course these people will have a lot of trouble in powder.

Originally Posted by JD

Also, older fatties, like the Axiome or Wolf, were HEAVY because of all the extra material. So if you were trying to pull the ski thru a turn, or turn from the back seat, they were slow to bring around. However, if you stay up on your boards and weighted forward they ski just like a normal ski.

Now, I haven't been skiing the West since the introduction of Shaped skiis. Perhaps your fatties would make it easier for me. If I have a lot of money to burn, I may buy a pair if I am out West. However, I don't even feel a desire to return to the West.

Originally Posted by JD

I guess this is what you mean by good skiers can ski anything, but it's just so much more work, I'd rather take a bunch of mellow runs, then fewer more intense runs.

After skiing in Utah for a season, I returned to the East. When I went skiing I fell flat on my first run. I had lost the ability to edge on a slick surface. The West made me lazy. It's like claiming that you have to do more work with straight skiis than you do with Shaped. Poppycock. You have to be in better SHAPE. You have to be more exact in your skills. That's why it is easy to go from straight to shaped but hard to go from shaped back to straight. You get lazy. If you never tried shaped, it wouldn't make a difference .

Originally Posted by skiguide

I love watching old Warren millers of guys on bump skis shredding deep snow. Pretty amazing.

Most straight skiis were sold full length at 204-207. However, one would go down to 195 for a bump ski. Not much else would have been different. Men were men back then, not whusies on comic looking skiis.



Now, most average recreational skiers complain that they were surprised that powder skiing in Utah or Co. was a difficult adjustment for them. it's easier for a good skier.