Exclamation New Policy: Lift Ticket Voucher Sales No Longer Allowed

[Greg]

Originally Posted by BeanoNYC

This decision is to benefit all of us. Nobody bitched and moaned when Win offered us discounted tickets on AZ day or the one dollar tickets on April Fools? Do you think he will continue such a generous policy for people that are selling non-transferable vouchers for profit? My guess is that the benefits of this decisions will eventually far outweigh any inconvenience.

Great point, Beano. Hmm....wasn't GSS one of the ones that took advantage of that April Fools blog/forum dollar deal? His thinking truly is short sighted...

[AdironRider]

My point, and Im assuming GSS's as well, is that vouchers get traded and sold all the time and the act of doing so does nothing to hurt the resorts bottom line. The voucher acts as a sunk cost to the mtn, by prinitng it out they assume they are losing a lift tickets worth of sales. By transfering the voucher, whether it be free or for cash, the mtn in question gets a skier visit which will more than likely result in buddies buying other tickets, food, et all. It doesnt hurt the mtn in any way.

On the flip side I can see how the site is supported by resorts and resort owners act as contributing members. I can see how they would be opposed and am prepared to follow the rules as such. Guess Im just in the Jackson mentality where selling a Jackson Hole voucher can pay for your bar tab for the week out here. Theyre next to impossible to come by and can fetch pretty much face value (well maybe 5-10 bucks less) than a regular lift ticket, especially during holidays. Us ski bums gotta make it work any way possible. Its the nature of the beast.

[andyzee]

What if we post a link to voucher sale on another site, is that ok?

[Bumpsis]

Originally Posted by ckofer

Since we Greg wants us to be thoughtful of how we part with vouchers here, may this will work. Post where you're looking to go and just plain beg for any spare voucher/discount coupon anybody may have to offer. The season ends in a few weeks so hoarding coupons right now is nearly pointless. Transactions should be via pm.

I like this suggestion. I definitely wouldn't want to encourage trafficking in non-legit voucher/tickets, but there is plenty of vouchers that don't have trasfer limitations and members of this community ought to be able to do these exchanges. Doing it as suggested by ckofer sounds good to me.

The essence of this board, at least in my opinion is to allow skiers/riders to share information that enhances the on-snow experience. From opinions about gear to actual ski conditions and other related information we give ourselves an edge that allowes us to look out for our interests as ski consumers. Being able to buy or offer a voucher (free or for sale) is very much in the same realm.

The "no voucher sale" policy is a bit of a sell-out and puts the industry's interests first, but I understand why it was put in place.
ckofer's suggestion offers a good work around.

[billski]

If the forum crosses the line, wherein it becomes a mouthpiece for or a pawn of a resort, then user's liberty and freedom to bash or compliment any particular area is constrained. As long as Greg treats all resorts fairly and continues to allow freedom of expression, the group continues to add value to the greater community.

I see the voucher policy as fair, one where no particular resort is singled out or exempted. The policy also does it's ethical part in not promoting illegal activity, since almost every voucher in existence has restrictions with regard to trade or resale.

[hammer]

I think what a some members (myself included) have a beef with is not whether the policy is reasonable but what the reasons were for the policy being established.

From the second paragraph of the policy thread:

Reselling of vouchers is not looked at favorably by the industry and many feel this practice devalues lift tickets. Often times this results in fewer lift ticket deals in the form of vouchers and comps being offered. AlpineZone.com has built strong relationships with many ski areas and we would like to maintain that.

I know that AZ gains more credibility when it establishes good connections with the industry, but implementing forum policies in response to industry complaints is a slippery slope indeed...

(yep...I know I'm just but isn't that what forums are for sometimes?)

[hiroto]

Originally Posted by billski

Ski Vermont voucher
"Individual coupons are transferrable to the pass purchaser's designee but are not intended for resale outside place of business which purchases pass.... Ski Pass is not for resale and tickets issued may not be resold under any circumstance."

Ski NH Voucher:
"These vouchers are part of a ...pass which is being sold to a business for the use of its employees and families, customers and/or suppliers, or to an individual for use by his/her family and friends. Public resale to other parties via any form of advertising (including Ebay or Craigslist) or transfer of vouchers on the property of any Ski NH resort is strictly prohibited..."

Billski. How about vouchers puchased through ACE?

[riverc0il]

Just out of curiosity, any legal types know the exact legal aspects of resale of lift tickets? Just because a business makes a policy does not make it legally true. For example, what if publishers starting putting fine print on a book that it could not be resold (not an on par example as one is an item and the other is a service, but you get the jist). Lots of times business say you can't do something when in fact they do not have any legal ground to stand on. Just curious if the law backs this up when it comes to resale of lift tickets after they have been purchased or transfer of lift tickets at the same price.

I fully understand if site administration feels that there is a legal issue here and does not want AZ allowing black market trading going on. It seems that the law would support the ski areas claim on this item, I just wanted clarification regarding my question above.

This policy would be more respectable if it was explicitly being set forth as liability protection for AZ and not allowing illegal black market trading versus industry insiders setting an agenda based on good relations (which it appears to me). You have to wonder if that is a slippery slope, perhaps criticism of industry insiders who post here will be not allowed either eventually and so on down that line.

[riverc0il]

Originally Posted by 2knees

simply saying the participation of these guys outweighs the bucks saved by some people on the rather rare occasions these things get offered up for sale.

Personally, I disagree with that statement (having never used AZ to purchase tickets) but just my opinion, since everyone else is weighing in with theirs. But I am on board from a legal standpoint. If people are breaking the law on AZ black market style, then it is a no brainer to make the policy so that illegal activities are not occurring on the forum. I take no issues with the policy itself. I echoed hammer's thoughts and pot stirring in the other thread (where this discussion really should have taken place, sorry ckofer!

[ckofer]

Originally Posted by hammer

I know that AZ gains more credibility when it establishes good connections with the industry, but implementing forum policies in response to industry complaints is a slippery slope indeed...

(yep...I know I'm just but isn't that what forums are for sometimes?)

This isn't quite like being asked only to write nice trip reports and keep the grumbling to yourself. I'm sure most resorts dealing out vouchers hope you remember their names, go to their mountains, remember your money and forget the vouchers at home. I wonder if eventually some resorts will go to a mail-in rebate system where you have to send both your tickets and your receipts in for cash/vouchers (transferrable please).

Am I the only shameless one here to beg for a Killington pass before they close?