Ski Technique revelation re: shaped ski turning, carving. My thoughts, your feedback...

[patentcad]

I got out on my Volkl 5 Stars today @ NY's Hunter Mountain, a place with similarities to Gore with a fast quad chair and lots of steep terrain with hard, VERY fast snow combined with boilerplate hardpack and ice. Actually the snow conditions generally ranged from good to excellent, but in the Northeast that generally includes boilerplate hardpack/ice where ever high traffic has scraped the softer snow off the hard stuff underneath. The 175cm Volkls were carving snow that my old Rossignol 205cm (traditional) 7G GS racing skis would have skidded out on.

I discovered a new technique intuitively that upon confirmation with a few expert skiers today SEEMS (primarily because it worked so well for me) to be the correct way to take advantage of the new 'shaped' skis' phenomenal carving and turning capabilities. With my old skis, in order to check my speed on steeper terrain I would angulate my downhill ski knee in an effort to get a greater angle of attack for my downhill ski edge. More edging: more friction: shave off speed. But with the shaped skis I used a very different approach: I would set the edge and wait just a split second until the ski was locked into its carve. It felt just like putting a slot car onto its slot on the track: once you set it, the ski carved beautifully every time, even across 'bulletproof' hardpack/ice. All day the ski might have skidded out of its carve 5x out of hundreds of turns. The hardest part was having the confidence that the ski was going to hold its track every time - I'm simply not used to that, even my old Rossi GS skis weren't that reliable on the hard stuff. Once I started having faith in the Five Stars, things got much easier.

Now instead of angulating my downhill ski edge, I simply ride the skis - both of them, not just the downhill ski as is common with older skis - as long as it takes to shave off speed. The longer you carve, the more speed you lose, until you're almost skiing back UP the hill at the end of the turn's arc. That accomplishes another key element of this different turning style: it loads up the skis like a pair of giant springs, and initiating the new turn is as simple as rolling your knees and ankles over in the new direction - and releaasing all of the energy stored in those compressed skis - propelling you into the new turn. By allowing the ski to carve and compress - and then letting the compression release and simply rolling the ski into the new direction to repeat the process - you're actually letting the ski do all the work. You're just along for the ride.

And what a ride it was! Between my first real experience of shaped skis on a bigger mountain on a wider range of challenging expert terrain and employing technique that uses them to their potential, I got a look at what skiing will be like for me going forward. What a revolution in ski technique and gear this whole thing is! Old news to any avid skier, but a big newsflash for yours truly. I was discussing this with my wife and it seems that all her old 'bad' habits - rolling her knees over instead of unweighting, evenly weighting both skis instad of emphasizing the downhill ski - now they're actually proper technique for this new gear. I can see why ski instructors are thinking that shaped skis are going to make it much easier for novice and intermediate skiers to learn, and learn much faster.

If you tried skiing years ago and were frustrated by a plateau in your learning curve all I can tell you is that curve just got a WHOLE lot flatter. As an advanced skier I found that I could ski the same terrain at the same speeds/aggressiveness with less than half as much energy - and actually ski it better. I struggled with K-27 (one of the steepest slopes in the Northeast) which had VW sized bumps with heavy snow on top and boilerplate ice in between. But that was just my staleness after an 8 year layoff and my fear to commit to the steep fall line with enough aggression and confidence. I'll get that back by mid season next year. I had no problems on Racer's Edge and Claire's steep bumpless runs. I also have a healthy fear of moguls thanks to my lower back issues/surgery/pain, which also played into my timidity on K-27 today. At least I didn't fall at the top. What a friggin yard sale THAT would have been : ).

We have knowledgable ski instructors here, I'm sure. Can anyone confirm or contradict what I'm saying here? It really did seem to work for me today and a couple of other very experienced skiers seemed to think that this was pretty much dead on the money. If I'm missing the boat on any of this somebody please tell me now before I form horrible habits that will be hard to break...

[ctenidae]

Sounds about right to me. I learned as a kid on straight skis, then didn't ski for 18 years. Getting on shaped skis when I started skiing again was odd- I didn't know what was different- muscle memory said something wasn't right, but I couldn't tell what. Then I had an epiphany, and realized I was working too much. As soon as I realized the skis will do a lot for you, it became a whole other ballgame.
Now I'm realizing my skis aren't quite right for me. Those 5 Stars ought to treat you well, though. I'm after a set of Volkl 724's next.

[trackbiker]

I bought a pair of Vokl's this year after living in the South for 8 years and sking on my straight skis in NC and renting shaped skis for the weekend or two that I would spend up north. I always felt the advantage of the shaped ski but would fall into old habits skiing the steeper slopes. Took me about the whole season to really learn how to ski a shaped ski. Did some reading and asked some questions. Last week I really enjoyed skiing some fast blue cruisers. It was effortless to turn in a few inches of powder or anything that you could get a grip on. Old habits are hard to break though, I still find myself skidding the turns on the black diamonds. I think that a lesson or two should solve that.

[riverc0il]

you should still be angulating if you are carving on the newer shaped skis. at least, i do. but i come from a racing background. i have a very pronounced angulation unless i am skiing powder, crud, or loose snow when i just ride the skis and stay centered.

[Charlie Schuessler]

I found that shape skis permit the skier to use less strength & technique for reasonable results. However the ski can not turn by itself and without proper technique including centered balance, solid edging created by proper angulation, and pressuring the ski throughout the turn, the shape ski will not perform any better than 2 x 4, it will skid and not carve...

Yeah, you got it right, that is how skis (and technique) are now. The funny thing about your post is that most of us were having your epiphany about 5 years ago, but I see you haven't skied in 8 years, so you have good reason. It's gotten to the point now that I don't call "shaped skis" "shaped skis," I just call them "skis." When you go out west, because now that you are on the modern stuff you now need to go out there and try it all out, right you'll get on some fats, like a Volkl Explosiv and see an even bigger difference in what you can do compared to skis from 8 years ago.

Mark

[Bob R]

I don't think I'll ever get this more even weight distribution on both skies. I have always put alot more weight on the down hill ski 90% to 10% maybe. We use to ski lifting our up hill ski in race turns.
Know 60% to 40% or something like that is the guide line for wieght on eash ski.. I have given up I just make turns. RivercOil has got it chase him.

[JimG.]

Originally Posted by riverc0il

you should still be angulating if you are carving on the newer shaped skis. at least, i do. but i come from a racing background. i have a very pronounced angulation unless i am skiing powder, crud, or loose snow when i just ride the skis and stay centered.

I don't have a racing background, but this sounds exactly the way I ski. I'll add that I angulate less in bumps as well as POW, crud, and loose snow.

Shaped skis make carving easier, but basic technique is still essential. The skis will not turn themselves, and hip angulation is still the key to making and changing edge angles no matter what the shape of the ski.

[cbcbd]

patent, I can relate to what you're saying. I went from straight skis to shaped skis this year. I was putting so much effort to keep up with my GF and her family with my straight skis, it was tough!

When I got her dad's old Xscreams I was still putting lots of push into the downhill ski and carved myself into falling on my side many times - I was so puzzled and couldn't see the hype about shaped skis.
I was then told to put less effort and just ride the skis. I did, it worked, and I loved it! Now I just need some shorter skis. The 185s are kind of big for my 5'8" self.

[JimG.]

Originally Posted by patentcad

I also have a healthy fear of moguls thanks to my lower back issues/surgery/pain, which also played into my timidity on K-27 today. At least I didn't fall at the top. What a friggin yard sale THAT would have been : ).

I've been there with surgery and pain and rehab...take it easy on yourself mentally and take it slow. Your body is probably ready to do more than your mind tells you, but unless your head is on straight it's better to work up to things slowly and not jump in too fast.

I've been a regular at Hunter for 20 years and have taught and coached there for the better part of 15 of those years. You are on the right path with your new equipment. Angulation is still key, but let the majority of it come from your hips and take it easy on the knees. You will find that you can get so far inside a turn with your hips that it's almost insane.

As for falls on K27, I've seen alot and many are horrendous. My buddy Karl and I skiied K a few weeks back when it had no loose snow and was nothing but hardpack bumps with boilerplate in between. We probably made it look alot easier than it was, but it wasn't alot of fun. Another skier jumped in behind us and lost it way up top; poor guy ragdolled right to the bottom and didn't move for a good 5 minutes. We hiked up to him and he was OK, but it looked really bad.