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Lance Armstrong folds

legalskier

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He ends his fight against doping charges.

*** His decision means he will almost certainly be stripped of his seven Tour titles, the bronze medal he won at the 2000 Olympics and all other titles, awards and money he won from August 1998 on.
It also means he will be barred for life from competing, coaching or having any official role with any Olympic sport or other sport that follows the World Anti-Doping Code. ***

Full story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/s...arges-losing-his-7-tour-de-france-titles.html


Talk about crashing and burning.
:sad:
 

riverc0il

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Wow, I didn't think I'd ever see that..
I didn't either. It doesn't appear he admitted anything, though (at least not literally). But for all intensive purposes, I can't imagine a guy like LA giving up the defense of seven TdF titles because he was tired of fighting a falsehood. Not that he had to fight anything, I am sure his lawyer's were taking care of everything at this point.

It is too bad there wasn't a way he could have came out and admitted it but still kept his titles. This retro active stripping of titles for riders of that era is bogus. They were all doped to the gills at the top level. Going back and awarding jerseys to second-seventh place finishers that were also doping but just were not caught is just dumb. I'd like to see some of these riders pass on the jersey... but I doubt we'll see that. It seems most folks being open about the issue only do so after being caught and vilified.

Armstrong really was the best of the best of his time. I can understand him thinking he didn't "cheat" because he beat pretty much everyone on a level playing field. You either doped or you got dropped.

That said, it is good to see things are better today.
 

JimG.

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The French have been scheming for years to get rid of Lance. It galls them that he dominated their stupid little bike race for years.

I don't blame him for giving up...who cares if he doped up in a sport known for doping? And do any of these French idiots care that he had to come back from almost certain death from testicular cancer that had spread to his brain and lungs? The guy was as good as dead and his doctors admitted as much. It's a true miracle he survived leave alone came back to dominate his sport.

I'm getting a little sick of sports in general, especially after Skip Bayless accused Derek Jeter of doping the other day.
 

Warp Daddy

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I agree that they probably all doped and frankly whenever $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ are the motivation and the driver for most all professional athletics regardless of the sport one can safely assume that heretofore illegal substances are at play and are WELL masked by those scheming to attain fame , fortune and notoriety.

The so called " Purity". Of Professional athletics has long been a myth. --and to that end I add Division One at the so called collegiate level . D I for the most part is a HUGE business and the NCAA is a compromised gatekeeper at best

So Armstong has made his $$$$$$$$ and frankly at this point the medal and jerseys etc are MOOT

color me cynical but pro sports are never going to be anything but a money and the ethics involved are at best SITUATIONAL
 

drjeff

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I always found it interesting that the main timeframe that LA was accused of doping was before the rise of Alberto Contador, and in all the samples from LA that they've tested, they've never ever been able to find a VERIFIABLE positive result whereas with Contador they nabbed him. Considering that both LA and Contador were the stars of big budget teams, one could presume that they both if they so chose to do had access to some of the best medical physiology and pharmacology minds on earth, and Contadaor couldn't pass the same tests that if LA had doped that his samples did?? So if LA doped (and personally I don't think that he did), the "older" doping techniques were superior and held up to the scrutiny of both the older and newer screening technologies?? Doesn't make sense to me

I think that if as much time, money and research that has gone into trying to come up with a verifiable result that LA doped went into say Cancer Research that we'd of had a cure for ALL types of Cancer now! ;)
 

Abubob

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I'd like to see some of these riders pass on the jersey... but I doubt we'll see that. It seems most folks being open about the issue only do so after being caught and vilified.

+1

The guy was as good as dead and his doctors admitted as much. It's a true miracle he survived leave alone came back to dominate his sport.
I'm getting a little sick of sports in general, especially after Skip Bayless accused Derek Jeter of doping the other day.

word

color me cynical but pro sports are never going to be anything but a money and the ethics involved are at best SITUATIONAL

ditto

I think that if as much time, money and research that has gone into trying to come up with a verifiable result that LA doped went into say Cancer Research that we'd of had a cure for ALL types of Cancer now! ;)

like
 

thetrailboss

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The biggest potential losers are the researchers and non-profits who were getting help from his LIVESTRONG charity. With all of this hoopla, less folks will give money to it or pull money from it.

Agree with Jim. The whole thing is stupid and everyone lost here.
 

mlctvt

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What exactly does "stripping" his Tour titles mean anyway. Are they going to give the wins to the 2nd place finishers who by the way have all been caught doping too.

1999 : Alex Zulle took second. He has admitted to taking EPO in the past.
2000 : Jan Ulrich. Suspended and banned for doping.
2001 : Jan Ulrich. See 2000 above
2002 : Joseba Beloki. Implicated in Operation Puerto.
2003 : Jan Ulrich. See 2000 above.
2004 : Andréas Kloden. Accused of blood transfusions in 2006.
2005 : Ivan Basso. Admitted to doping in 2007 and was banned for 2 years.

I agree, what a waste of resources this witch hunt was! The Justice department dropped their criminal charges because there wasn't sufficient "proof" forconviction. Eyewitness testimony especially from others who also doped or who have books to sell is not proof.
 

deadheadskier

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wonder if he ends up being publicly vilified like the Bonds, Clemens and McGuire's of the baseball world.

I doubt it given, he's got the beating cancer and raising $500M in his corner.

Perhaps those athletes who have cheated and are publicly scorn should take a lesson from Lance. If you're going to profit handsomely from cheating, do a massive amount of good with those profits and people will tend to look beyond the cheating.
 

Abubob

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The biggest potential losers are the researchers and non-profits who were getting help from his LIVESTRONG charity. With all of this hoopla, less folks will give money to it or pull money from it.

Agree with Jim. The whole thing is stupid and everyone lost here.

wonder if he ends up being publicly vilified like the Bonds, Clemens and McGuire's of the baseball world.

I doubt it given, he's got the beating cancer and raising $500M in his corner.

Perhaps those athletes who have cheated and are publicly scorn should take a lesson from Lance. If you're going to profit handsomely from cheating, do a massive amount of good with those profits and people will tend to look beyond the cheating.

According to the article andyzee posted Nike is standing behind Lance. And based on the tenor of this forum and the Yahoo article I doubt his reputation is much harmed by all this but is probably strengthened.
 

wa-loaf

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wonder if he ends up being publicly vilified like the Bonds, Clemens and McGuire's of the baseball world.

I doubt it given, he's got the beating cancer and raising $500M in his corner.

Perhaps those athletes who have cheated and are publicly scorn should take a lesson from Lance. If you're going to profit handsomely from cheating, do a massive amount of good with those profits and people will tend to look beyond the cheating.


Nike says they are sticking with him.

I think he just figured "fuck you", you can take that stuff away on paper, but you can't take me down and I don't need you.
 

riverc0il

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I always found it interesting that the main timeframe that LA was accused of doping was before the rise of Alberto Contador, and in all the samples from LA that they've tested, they've never ever been able to find a VERIFIABLE positive result whereas with Contador they nabbed him. Considering that both LA and Contador were the stars of big budget teams, one could presume that they both if they so chose to do had access to some of the best medical physiology and pharmacology minds on earth, and Contadaor couldn't pass the same tests that if LA had doped that his samples did?? So if LA doped (and personally I don't think that he did), the "older" doping techniques were superior and held up to the scrutiny of both the older and newer screening technologies?? Doesn't make sense to me

I think that if as much time, money and research that has gone into trying to come up with a verifiable result that LA doped went into say Cancer Research that we'd of had a cure for ALL types of Cancer now! ;)
drjeff, your thoughts assume the testing remained the same. Testing wasn't as tough in the LA days and they got Contador very recently and on some non-typical stuff. From what I understand, there were systematic ways to beat the tests in the US Postal days. Studies show pro riders are significantly slower up the major tour climbs now compared to back then. You gotta compare apples to apples if you are going to compare testing. Can't wait to get Hamilton's new book, seems like he is going to speak to the exact methods the team used to beat the tests.
 

riverc0il

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The biggest potential losers are the researchers and non-profits who were getting help from his LIVESTRONG charity. With all of this hoopla, less folks will give money to it or pull money from it.

Agree with Jim. The whole thing is stupid and everyone lost here.
Livestrong doesn't really donate to research. They promote fighting cancer but aren't giving much if any money to seeking out a cure. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Livestrong tank and money go directly to the actual research instead of supporting a feel good awareness organization.
 

riverc0il

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wonder if he ends up being publicly vilified like the Bonds, Clemens and McGuire's of the baseball world.

I doubt it given, he's got the beating cancer and raising $500M in his corner.

Perhaps those athletes who have cheated and are publicly scorn should take a lesson from Lance. If you're going to profit handsomely from cheating, do a massive amount of good with those profits and people will tend to look beyond the cheating.
I don't think LA should face the same scorn as Bonds and McGuire. These guys made their name breaking records that probably wouldn't have been done without the PEDs. For LA, it is irrelevant. He was still the best cyclist of his generation and one of the best ever. All the top pros were doped so he really beat the best fair and square (in the sense that everyone was doped, so it was equal). I guess he could be scorned like Clemens for trying to dodge the heat and plead innocent. I give the guy some credit for giving up the fight.... BUT:

I've been thinking about LA's decision and it really is a good tactical move. If he went to trial, there was a really good chance he would have lost. With a verdict, it would have looked much more official. Now he can claim to take the high road, "turn the page", and maintain his innocence without a verdict to the contrary weighing over his head. He also has his supporters like drjeff that will continue to refuse to see reality because it is such a massively feel good story that someone so close to sure death could not only come back but be the best TdF rider ever. :)
 

Nick

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Do you guys think even if he was doping his accomplishments are trivial? Is the performance edge gained truly that significant?
 
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