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Killington - Other ski areas in a death spiral besides Killington?

steamboat1

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I didn't ski Okemo this year but noticed the same thing as Mac the last several years previous. They also had issues with ice last time I skied there which I didn't find at other areas at the same time. I'll admit I've never been a fan of Okemo.
 

WWF-VT

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I didn't ski Okemo this year but noticed the same thing as Mac the last several years previous. They also had issues with ice last time I skied there which I didn't find at other areas at the same time. I'll admit I've never been a fan of Okemo.

Less than stellar snowmaking and grooming for a few visits to Okemo don't exactly equate to the mountain "being in a death spiral like Killington".
 

jimmywilson69

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I skied Okemo at the begining of February and they were making snow, so that part of the "rumor" is bunk.

the conditions were the same at okemo as they were at killington the 2 days prior. Groomed Granular/Frozen Granular except where they made snow.

The place looked like it had a decent business and they've clearlly sunk alot of money into on mountain housing and the Jackson Gore Base area within the past several years.
 

Bubbartzky

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While a lot of people, myself included, have a lot to discuss when it comes to Killington (some negative, some positive) it would be more than hyperbole to say that Killington is in a death spiral. That's just an absurd concept. Don't get me wrong - it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see Powdr and SP Land hit the road and Killington (all of it, both companies' holdings) sold to people who know and understand eastern skiing and eastern skiers but what Highway Star is suggesting is way beyond reality.
 

Highway Star

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While a lot of people, myself included, have a lot to discuss when it comes to Killington (some negative, some positive) it would be more than hyperbole to say that Killington is in a death spiral. That's just an absurd concept. Don't get me wrong - it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see Powdr and SP Land hit the road and Killington (all of it, both companies' holdings) sold to people who know and understand eastern skiing and eastern skiers but what Highway Star is suggesting is way beyond reality.

So, what exactly do you call hitting a new low in skier vists more than 50% off their peak?

A blip? :roll:
 

skiersleft

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While a lot of people, myself included, have a lot to discuss when it comes to Killington (some negative, some positive) it would be more than hyperbole to say that Killington is in a death spiral. That's just an absurd concept. Don't get me wrong - it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see Powdr and SP Land hit the road and Killington (all of it, both companies' holdings) sold to people who know and understand eastern skiing and eastern skiers but what Highway Star is suggesting is way beyond reality.

+1,200,000

Can someone please put HS in time out?
 

UVSHTSTRM

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So, what exactly do you call hitting a new low in skier vists more than 50% off their peak?

A blip? :roll:

So you would like to see the return of 1.2 million people? Also, there hasnt been 1.2 million skier visits in over a decade (who knows how inflated those were to begin with), thus doesn't this fall on ASC more then anything? Since Powder took over they have lost what 200,000 visits? I could be off, but I thought I heard they did about 850,000 in ASC's last year. I would agree that Killington is in a downward spiral in regards to customer (season passholders mostly) satisfaction, but I would be curious to see if they have lost much in regards to profit.
 

Highway Star

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Highway Star

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So you would like to see the return of 1.2 million people? Also, there hasnt been 1.2 million skier visits in over a decade (who knows how inflated those were to begin with), thus doesn't this fall on ASC more then anything? Since Powder took over they have lost what 200,000 visits? I could be off, but I thought I heard they did about 850,000 in ASC's last year. I would agree that Killington is in a downward spiral in regards to customer (season passholders mostly) satisfaction, but I would be curious to see if they have lost much in regards to profit.

Actually, that 1.2M figure was probably under inflated because they used an estimated figure of 20 skier visits average per full season pass, since there was no scanning in those days. To you know anyone who bought a $1000 Killington pass in the 90's and didn't ski at least 20 days or far more.....?

If you go back and look at the pico to ASC sale docs, they clearly discuss the target skier visits between the two.

ASC quoted two figures for it's last year for Killington, scanned (795k) and estimated (mid 900k's).

The crowds make little difference to me, but I must say there for the most part hasn't been a lift line at the superstar or snowdon quads since powdr took over. I would rather take the crowds and go back to a 8 month season with massive snowmaking and proper operations.
 

skiur

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They best thing that has happened to K is the loss of all those skier visits. Back in the day of the $400 asc passes the place was a zoo. I dont like much of what powder has done, but the reduction of the crowds whether on purpose or not is great.
 

mondeo

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So, what exactly do you call hitting a new low in skier vists more than 50% off their peak?

A blip? :roll:
Profitable?

It's not fair to compare this year to a peak year, with it being as warm as it has been and visits being down accordingly. Beyond that, they're charging more than twice as much as ASC was for a season pass, and have a much better cost structure. As much as the demise of BMMC pisses me off as much as anyone, and a few of their other questionable decisions, saying it's a death spiral is just dumb. I'd bet even on a down year like this they're more profitable than under ASC.
 
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