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Killington = EPIC FAIL. Late March 2012 no snowmaking edition.

AdironRider

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Since this argument has shifted gears, I think one should point out that housing and fuel (consensus - biggest expenditures for skiing) is not lining the coffers of a ski area.

That means a ski area is probably looking at the 1-4k totals Im mentioning opposed to the 15-20k numbers people are throwing out there.
 

drjeff

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Since this argument has shifted gears, I think one should point out that housing and fuel (consensus - biggest expenditures for skiing) is not lining the coffers of a ski area.

That means a ski area is probably looking at the 1-4k totals Im mentioning opposed to the 15-20k numbers people are throwing out there.

If only my families total to Mount Snow was in the 1-4k range!

2 adult Nor'easter passes - about $1025 each with tax
2 junior Nor'easter passes - about $850 each with tax
ski school season pass for 1 kid - about $1650 with tax
Competition Program, Plus Mount Snow Ski Club membership - about $750 with tax

And that doesn't even get into my base lodge bar tab for a season ;) :beer: :)
 

AdironRider

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Im not saying some families wont spend more, but you gotta admit, the average family is not spending 1700 a year in ski school or 800 to compete on the race team.

Even with your numbers (6.5k or so) thats a long ways away from the 15-20k numbers being thrown around.

I have a tough time with food costs cause everybody's got to eat. Thats why the feds only let you write off 50%.

Bar tabs are bar tabs, dont need to be near a ski hill to rack up numbers there. ;)
 

St. Bear

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Im not saying some families wont spend more, but you gotta admit, the average family is not spending 1700 a year in ski school or 800 to compete on the race team.

Even with your numbers (6.5k or so) thats a long ways away from the 15-20k numbers being thrown around.

I have a tough time with food costs cause everybody's got to eat. Thats why the feds only let you write off 50%.

Bar tabs are bar tabs, dont need to be near a ski hill to rack up numbers there. ;)

A $1,000/month mortgage (not big at all) would be $12,000 each year just by itself.
 

AdironRider

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See the top of this page.

Its a flawed argument to imply that you spend 15-20k a year on skiing and how the ski area needs to respect that, when in reality the ski area sees maybe 1/3 of that at best.

Not saying the ski areas shouldnt respect someone forking over thousands just for a couple passes, they should, but a ski area isnt counting on 100k coming from one family over the course of a decade. If so they'd have margins way over the 5-11% from the books Ive seen.
 

deadheadskier

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Whatever the number, whether it's 2K for a family of four buying blackout passes and brown bagging it or someone that goes all in on platinum passes, ski school, race programs, apres, golf memberships etc, my point is that landing or losing a skiing family to another mountain is no small change over the course of that families skiing lifetime as well as future generations of that family.

In addition to losing that families income, another thing to consider is that people with ski homes are like people with boats, they seem to have a lot of friends. :lol: Growing up skiing Okemo with my family every weekend of the season, I'd bet a least 10 weekends out of the season our house was packed with family or friends paying full rack rates on lift tickets. I bet whatever my dad spent for our family at Okemo was equal or surpassed by the additional revenue Okemo realized by family/friends visiting us for the weekend. Once my folks "retired" from skiing, half of our extended family who ski reverted to day trippers and skiing much less and the other half pretty much gave up the sport because they were never all that into it, but enjoyed taking a trip to Vermont to see family and skied because that's what we did.

Further to my point of the importance for a resort to lure lifetime family business is that even though my folks sold our ski house 10 years ago when they retired to Florida, Okemo is still reaping the rewards of impressing them in 1986. They return every summer and rent a house for four months in Ludlow and buy a golf membership. That's $4100 a summer in membership fees for the two of them and I know they spend at least $2K on top of that at the clubhouse and up at Jackson Gore every Friday night for the summer music series. That's 6K revenue during the OFF season. Also, just like winter, friends and family come all the time and spend rack rate at the golf course on greens fees. My folks have been returning every year to Okemo because of the social network and sense of "home" developed over the past 25 years.
 

Highway Star

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Whatever the number, whether it's 2K for a family of four buying blackout passes and brown bagging it or someone that goes all in on platinum passes, ski school, race programs, apres, golf memberships etc, my point is that landing or losing a skiing family to another mountain is no small change over the course of that families skiing lifetime as well as future generations of that family.

In addition to losing that families income, another thing to consider is that people with ski homes are like people with boats, they seem to have a lot of friends. :lol: Growing up skiing Okemo with my family every weekend of the season, I'd bet a least 10 weekends out of the season our house was packed with family or friends paying full rack rates on lift tickets. I bet whatever my dad spent for our family at Okemo was equal or surpassed by the additional revenue Okemo realized by family/friends visiting us for the weekend. Once my folks "retired" from skiing, half of our extended family who ski reverted to day trippers and skiing much less and the other half pretty much gave up the sport because they were never all that into it, but enjoyed taking a trip to Vermont to see family and skied because that's what we did.

Further to my point of the importance for a resort to lure lifetime family business is that even though my folks sold our ski house 10 years ago when they retired to Florida, Okemo is still reaping the rewards of impressing them in 1986. They return every summer and rent a house for four months in Ludlow and buy a golf membership. That's $4100 a summer in membership fees for the two of them and I know they spend at least $2K on top of that at the clubhouse and up at Jackson Gore every Friday night for the summer music series. That's 6K revenue during the OFF season. Also, just like winter, friends and family come all the time and spend rack rate at the golf course on greens fees. My folks have been returning every year to Okemo because of the social network and sense of "home" developed over the past 25 years.

The same is true on a smaller scale for those who rent shares in a ski house.
 

fbrissette

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Whatever the number, whether it's 2K for a family of four buying blackout passes and brown bagging it or someone that goes all in on platinum passes, ski school, race programs, apres, golf memberships etc, my point is that landing or losing a skiing family to another mountain is no small change over the course of that families skiing lifetime as well as future generations of that family.

In addition to losing that families income, another thing to consider is that people with ski homes are like people with boats, they seem to have a lot of friends. :lol: Growing up skiing Okemo with my family every weekend of the season, I'd bet a least 10 weekends out of the season our house was packed with family or friends paying full rack rates on lift tickets. I bet whatever my dad spent for our family at Okemo was equal or surpassed by the additional revenue Okemo realized by family/friends visiting us for the weekend. Once my folks "retired" from skiing, half of our extended family who ski reverted to day trippers and skiing much less and the other half pretty much gave up the sport because they were never all that into it, but enjoyed taking a trip to Vermont to see family and skied because that's what we did.

Further to my point of the importance for a resort to lure lifetime family business is that even though my folks sold our ski house 10 years ago when they retired to Florida, Okemo is still reaping the rewards of impressing them in 1986. They return every summer and rent a house for four months in Ludlow and buy a golf membership. That's $4100 a summer in membership fees for the two of them and I know they spend at least $2K on top of that at the clubhouse and up at Jackson Gore every Friday night for the summer music series. That's 6K revenue during the OFF season. Also, just like winter, friends and family come all the time and spend rack rate at the golf course on greens fees. My folks have been returning every year to Okemo because of the social network and sense of "home" developed over the past 25 years.
We are home owners at Jay. Her's the rundown of the business we brought in this season:

family ski pass: 1500$ (cheap at Jay)
ski shop; 1500$ (two new pairs of skis, not every year though)
tune ups: 100$
restaurants: 300$ (a few evening outings)
pumphouse: 300$
jay peak store: 300$ (milk, OJ, beer etc...)

As mentioned above here is the biggie - friends that come to visit that would otherwise NOT come. None of our visitors in the past 2 years had ever been to Jay Peak)

lift tickets: 3000$ (we have homeowner pricing, so we can keep track of what we buy for visitors)
other condo rentals: 4000$
pumphouse: 600$
restaurants: 600$

We generate over 12000$ of direct skiing business (pumphouse money would not be there without the skiing) to Jay Peak. And I am not counting condo fees (that partly pays for Jay Peak employees), insurance (local broker) and other expenses linked to being a home owner, and not counting expenses for the rest of the year (hiking, golfing etc..). So yep, home owners are a big part of a ski hill business. Jay certaintly understands that, and as a matter of fact, Bill Stenger is a board member of the VIllage condo association.

Even though we are relatively well off, pretty much all of our free money goes into this condo. It's a family choice we made, so no Disney vacations or South trips for us.

Francois
 

SkiFanE

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The ski house we bought was actually a local's house. So in a way...we added a new family to the area that didn't exist before. And the last 2 weekends we had other families stay with us...with kids..day passes, pizza, rentals, SR t-shirts...etc. One family moved back to NE and is interested in getting back into skiing and figuring out how, they really enjoyed the whole ski area vibe and lifestyle and with real young kids they are seriously thinking about it. They loved how they were treated at SR (and their 3yo took to magic carpet and skiing like a fish to water). Ski families breed more ski families...cannot discount that. If they didn't get a family friendly vibe at SR they wouldn't consider it a place to settle (military family that can retire anywhere at anytime).
 

drjeff

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Wow, it's amazing to hear these stories.

FYI HS, if there are someday "little HS's" cranking some big GS turns down the slopes, you'll be amazed/scared at how much extra the little one's add to your skiing (both interms of outright cost and also enjoyment - the later often offsets the prior).

Also, what one looks for in a resort tends to change when the kid factor gets added to the equation. Suddenly expert terrain and copius nightlife options aren't as high up on the list as they used to be, and things like kids programs/ski school and cruising terrrain available are a BIG factor. Just saying......
 

Highway Star

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If I was not so disappointed with how the mountain was run, I would spend much more with them and invite guests.
 

Highway Star

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Can't wait to slay the ice gnar at Killington this weekend, it's going to be awesome!!!!
 

Geoff

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Wow, some wealthy folks on here. I am a daytripper that averages 30-40 days a season. Total cost: $630 (pass) + $224.00 (gas) + $384.00 (bar) = $1238.00 a season on average. Of course, that will go up when my 2 year old gets on skis. Glad I don't mind day tripping and live relatively close to the mountains, because I don't see $10,000+ seasons being feasible anytime in my near future!

No. You really need to count the fully burdened cost of your car. The IRS says that's $0.55/mile. If you drive a newer mid-level car, that's spot on. I'm talking 2010 Toyota Camry, not anything fancy. For most skiers, automobile expense dwarfs all other costs.
 
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