Mittersill snowmaking

riverc0il · May 14, 2012

I recall it being in a budget proposal for two or three years out... and that was before the FSC thing.

Cannonball · May 15, 2012

skiberg said:
Certainly after the past few years its evident that there needs to be some type of consistent snow cover on a few select areas of the h ill. Even though the snow was great in 10-11, Mit. was skied off in a day. I think last year even with the great snow they realized they had a problem based primarily on the shear increase in the number of skiers on Mit.

Cannon management, cannon skiers. and state planners all knew that snow making would be needed. It wasn't like they put the lift in and were shocked to find out that natural snowfall wouldn't cut it. (If anyone thought that, they don't know the Mtn or aren't very observant). Snowmaking was in the plans with or without FSC. Sometimes, due to budgets, things have to happen one at a time. Obviously the lift can somewhat function without snowmaking...but snowmaking is pointless without a lift....so the lift came first. The FSC deal allows snowmaking to come in sooner, and it offers FSC some leverage to ask for something special for themselves over there.

With respect to Witch Hobble, it's win-win....lose-win-lose-lose-win-win-tie-lose..... depending how many interests you consider.

Puck it · May 15, 2012

Found this on the SaveCannonMountain blog site. I find it pretty funny, since the upper mountain glades on Cannon proper were all cut without permission by locals and now they are on the map.

'Whistleblowers' Find Long-Established Glade at Mittersill

If you emailed Sen. Jeb Bradley about his Cannon lease bill, you probably got a reply last week that concluded, "whistleblowers have recently brought to my attention significant tree cutting for glade skiing high on the mountain. I brought this presumably unauthorized cutting to the attention of the Division of Parks, which is currently investigating."

The senator was concerned because the area in question is above 2,500 feet on former Forest Service land that's habitat for the Bicknell's thrush, a small songbird.

It turns out that the senator discovered the glade known as Bunny Slope Direct or Pony Slope Direct, which has been around for about two decades.

Abubob · May 15, 2012

skiberg said:
I dont think its accurate to say it was part of any of Cannon's immediate plans. that would mean that FSC was involved in negotiating the land swap and had contact with Cannon to agree to place the snowmaking infrastructure at Mit. prior to the swap. That is not the case. Maybe it was a potential they considered, but Cannon had no short term plan to place snowmaking at Mit. without the assistance of FSC. Certainly after the past few years its evident that there needs to be some type of consistent snow cover on a few select areas of the h ill. Even though the snow was great in 10-11, Mit. was skied off in a day. I think last year even with the great snow they realized they had a problem based primarily on the shear increase in the number of skiers on Mit.

riverc0il said:
I recall it being in a budget proposal for two or three years out... and that was before the FSC thing.

For what it worth - This is from a pdf entitled, "February 21, 2008 Proposed Revision Cannon Mountain Master Development Plan"

Vision Statement
The vision for the development of the Mittersill Area including the lands acquired through exchange with the White Mountain National Forest is;
The Mittersill Area will be incorporated into the day to day management and operations of the Cannon Mountain Ski Area. The area will be of lesser development than the Tramway and Peabody Areas with limited skier services offered. Trail and skiing conditions will be managed and promoted as intermediate to advanced terrain with a backcountry feel. No new lift, trail, glade development or expansion of terrain will occur above the 2,500 foot elevation beyond the 1989 developed footprint. Existing trail and lift alignments and their widths shall be considered the maximum allowed.

Development Plan
Key facilities and infrastructure improvements include:
• Existing parking lots redevelopment and expansion as skier use increases;
• Construction of one double chair lift;
• Base Lodge providing shuttle transportation area, ticket sales center, first aid area, brown bag lunch and vending machine area; and,
• Snowmaking System.

Phase I (CY 2009)
1. Design and planning for the installation of a new lift utilizing the historic Mittersill double chair lift line, profile and topographical specifications;
2. Removal of unneeded existing infrastructure including lift towers, shacks, and other buildings;
3. All trails will be mowed, and erosion and drainage structures reestablished; and,
4. Parking lot upgrades.

Phase II (FY 2009 – 2010 & 2011 - 2012)
1. Lift Installation
2. Parking lot expansion
3. Base Lodge Construction

Phase IV (FY 2013 – 2014)
1. Snowmaking system construction

Component Estimated Cost
Existing Infrastructure $1,000,000
Trail Maintenance $ 100,000
Lift Installation $2,000,000
Parking lots $ 350,000
Lodge $3,000,000
Snowmaking System $2,500,000

skiberg · May 15, 2012

Well, I have never seen that . However, i stil dont think they had any conrete short term plans for snowmaking installation. By short term i mean within 3-5 years out.

Cannonball · May 15, 2012

skiberg said:
Well, I have never seen that . However, i stil dont think they had any conrete short term plans for snowmaking installation. By short term i mean within 3-5 years out.

Actually you brought it up in these forums 2 years ago. (I don't want to link to that thread because it was one of those brutal devolving Cannon threads). And it's been reported in various places since '08 at least. It's really not a surprise or news at this point. Was there anyone who thought a lift could work there without snowmaking? Not anybody who ever skied there.

Puck it · May 15, 2012

Cannonball said:
Actually you brought it up in these forums 2 years ago. (I don't want to link to that thread because it was one of those brutal devolving Cannon threads). And it's been reported in various places since '08 at least. It's really not a surprise or news at this point. Was there anyone who thought a lift could work there without snowmaking? Not anybody who ever skied there.

Snowmaking = Environmental Damage. Right? :fangun:

Just keep it out of Fischer Cat!!!!!:beer:

skiberg · May 15, 2012

I did bring it up a few years back and then i shut my mouth because people started suggesting i had no idea what i was talking about after i said this was goign to happen. In any event, those were the FSC plans back then. I was aware of those discussion and plans quite a while ago, but never did i hear that Cannon had plans themselves to install. I think JD knew it had to be done, but figured he would piggy back on the FSC offer as its a good deal for the state. Had FSC not come along it was probably only a matter of time and money before it happened. I know people are shooting to make this happen this off season, but that may be a bit too optimistic. Contractual language still has to be worked out with the State to protect FSC if the Mountain ever gets privatized. One big concern of FSC is privitization and then the new manager denying access to the trails after they dontate a couple million dollars of equipment to the State.

Puck it · May 15, 2012

BTW Threecy is all over it!!

http://www.taxpayersforcannon.com/news.php

thetrailboss · May 15, 2012

And BOOM! We have our Cannon thread! :lol:

skiberg · May 15, 2012

It doesn't take much does it

Puck it · May 15, 2012

No one was doing, but I did it. He has been quiet lately. Must be in the woods, cleaning up environmental damage that he created.

witch hobble · May 15, 2012

I particularly like this camouflage portal to the TFC website too.

http://www.taxpayersforcannon.com/savecannonmountain/

Puck it · May 15, 2012

witch hobble said:
I particularly like this camouflage portal to the TFC website too.

http://www.taxpayersforcannon.com/savecannonmountain/

All I see is Mt Lafayette.

witch hobble · May 15, 2012

It is a great photo.

riverc0il · May 15, 2012

skiberg said:
Well, I have never seen that . However, i stil dont think they had any conrete short term plans for snowmaking installation. By short term i mean within 3-5 years out.

Someone just posted a plan stating it was in the works for 2013. How can you still stand by your incorrect recollection?

Puck it · May 15, 2012

riverc0il said:
Someone just posted a plan stating it was in the works for 2013. How can you still stand by your incorrect recollection?

Short memory loss, possibly!

deadheadskier · May 16, 2012

Puck it said:
BTW Threecy is all over it!!

http://www.taxpayersforcannon.com/news.php

"After operating Mittersill for 5.5 days last season, Cannon is requesting additional funding, both in terms of capital from the Franconia Ski Club, as well as new snowmaking, grooming, and lift operating costs to be paid by state taxpayers."

How genuine is this claim? I haven't seen a single piece of literature that says Cannon went to FSC looking for money. This statement certainly infers that Cannon went to FSC, Holderness etc., asking for money. Nothing I've read has made such a suggestion. It's always the opposite; FSC, Holderness offering the funding because they want better race facilities at Cannon.

Even if Cannon did get on their knees and beg for money from FSC, why would a taxpayer care? I would think a fiscally conservative taxpayer would applaud Cannon seeking funds from private sources.

bigbob · May 16, 2012

deadheadskier said:
"After operating Mittersill for 5.5 days last season, Cannon is requesting additional funding, both in terms of capital from the Franconia Ski Club, as well as new snowmaking, grooming, and lift operating costs to be paid by state taxpayers."

How genuine is this claim? I haven't seen a single piece of literature that says Cannon went to FSC looking for money. This statement certainly infers that Cannon went to FSC, Holderness etc., asking for money. Nothing I've read has made such a suggestion. It's always the opposite; FSC, Holderness offering the funding because they want better race facilities at Cannon.

Even if Cannon did get on their knees and beg for money from FSC, why would a taxpayer care? I would think a fiscally conservative taxpayer would applaud Cannon seeking funds from private sources.

In Threece's eyes, anything Cannon does other than leasing out to a private concern would be wrong!

Abubob · May 17, 2012

bigbob said:
In Threece's eyes, anything Cannon does other than leasing out to a private concern would be wrong!

This gets rather tedious after a while. Even if threecy doesn't make a comment now it gets done in his behalf? :roll:

If Cannon wants to reconfigure the trails for racing - so what? If they want to put in snowmaking - I've think we've established that idea has always been on the table. If they want to put lights up for night skiing - whoopee! So really its back to the way it was before it went belly up. Will you pay more for a ticket? Well duh! You want backcountry skiing? I think there's plenty still to go around. Can we just move along? :???:

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