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Off Road Vehicles arrrrgh

SilentCal

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While hiking along the Metacomet-Mondanock trail on Mt. Tom (Mass.) yesterday, we ran into two separate groups of ATV 'ers and dirtbikers. The ATV 'ers had ascended the mountain from the old ski resort and had stayed off the hiking trails. They had parked their quads and hiked a short way to a nice viewpoint and were friendly to us. The dirtbikers on the other had were directly on the lower half of the trail and we had to get off four times from them to go by. The fourth time I was quite tempted to take my trekking pole and jam it in his front tire spokes to get him to flip. I ended up just glaring at him and he gave me the finger. Talk about getting your blood boiling. Now many hikers hate ORV's but around here in Mass the hiking trails and ORV paths are more and more seeming to go hand in hand. It's a real shame, I guess it just means I'll have to go bushwacking more. Any one else have similar experiences?
 

MtnMagic

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I've only seen snowmobiles on Cherry Mtn in Twin and ATM's on Coppermine Trail in Franconia. Strickly while there was plenty of snow on the ground.

In spring, summer and fall, I loathe to see these machines digging up trails and causing more washout during rainfall. Here in the Whites many have ORV and contribute to the income (registration fees) to one's town. Let them dig up their own back yard. My feeling is they should only use the many miles of former RR beds.

The trailhead owner of Mt Cabot on the Arthur White Road wanted to run ATV up over the mtn all the way to Gorham. The USFS said 'NO.' That is the main reason the Mt Cabot trail is officially closed.

Two years ago a hiker and I going up the Tripyramids via Livermore Trail barely escaped being mowwed down by over a dozen bikers as they silently sped at 40 mph toward us.
 

SilentCal

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Hey Magic Just where are those ATM's on the Coppermine Trail. :roll: Just when you thought the banks could not be more intrusive.

I never knew that was the reason the Mt. Cabot trail was closed. Nothing screws up a trail more than the ORV's and contribute to erosion more.
 

MtnMagic

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Ha Ha! My poor spelling, of course I meant ATV's. More homes are being constructed near the first half mile of the Coppermine Trail and a new home was constructed this winter South in full view of the parking area complete with a fence for horses.

Two weekends ago I saw an ATV on Coppermine trail that had huge snow treads mounted on each wheel, ala a tank. The local owner said, "You can't make a snowmachine an ATV, but you can make an ATV a snowmachine."

First ever I've seen of these. I hope the last!
 

severine

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I see your points and they're very good ones, but I'm also married to a 4x4 loving man. His big complaint is that there aren't any 4 wheel drive trails in CT at all. If you want to 4 wheel, you have to do it in your own yard or on somebody else's property who has given you permission. I know when we were out in Montana, however, there were quite a few off road "trails" (wide dirt roads) up the mountains that were separate from the hiking trails. Perhaps that's the middle road to making both groups happy? Personally I'm not fond of motorized vehicles when I'm out in the woods to get away from it all, but I know other people feel that's their way of "getting away from it all." I certainly would be upset to share the same trails with ORVs--they should have their own trails that were carefully constructed to have as minimal an impact as possible on the environment. Is there any governing body that controls who has access to what up there? Motorized vehicles aren't allowed on the hiking trails I've been on in this area so there must be somebody to appeal to who regulates these things...

(BTW, my husband is also a hiker, so he's familiar with the other perspective...but he loves his 4x4, too.)
 

Greg

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I used to have ATCs (3 wheelers) and dirt bikes as a kid. They are a blast, but as severine mentions, there are no places to ride them (legally) in CT. Hence, the reason I haven't had one since I was 17....that, and the severe concussion I got on my ATC after slamming into a tree. :blink:
 

MtnMagic

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There are 100's of miles of railroad beds throughout NE that have abandoned RR tracks and (at least around here) have removed the tracks. I feel those hardened, mostly level stone beds should be used for hiking, biking and mostly ORV's.

I just hate slamming into trees, could ruin your whole day. Ouch!
 

Max

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Personally, I don't have a lot of sympathy for ATV owners who live in states where there is limited or non-existant riding, and then complain about it. I'm sure Severine's hubby doesn't do that, but you hear of lots of ATV-ers who think that they need to be catered to after the fact. If you live in Nebraska, you don't go out and buy a selection of surfboards and then complain about the lack of places to go surfing. I guess you gotta know up front what you're getting into, and that it might entail traveling to places where there are approved trails to ride on.
 

severine

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Max said:
Personally, I don't have a lot of sympathy for ATV owners who live in states where there is limited or non-existant riding, and then complain about it. I'm sure Severine's hubby doesn't do that, but you hear of lots of ATV-ers who think that they need to be catered to after the fact. If you live in Nebraska, you don't go out and buy a selection of surfboards and then complain about the lack of places to go surfing. I guess you gotta know up front what you're getting into, and that it might entail traveling to places where there are approved trails to ride on.

Great point. My husband didn't buy his Jeep to go off-roading--he bought it because he likes Jeeps. It's his daily driver and he gets a chance to do some donuts in the parking lot at work every once in a while, but that's about it. After going to Montana and seeing the network of off-road trails that were available, the lack of such back home became more apparent--but it's not like he's illegally off-roading or anything. He's just wishful. We're also working on relocating and so, while it's not a factor in where we move, he will probably have some preference for an area where there are approved off-road trails. But it won't be the end of the world if there aren't any...
I also agree with the comment above about the abandoned railroad lines. Seems like a good way to make both groups happy with less of an impact on the environment.
 

Max

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Severine, I know, I feel bad for him, living in an area where it's tough to ride. When I was out in Colorado and Wyoming, there were plenty of places to go off roading, and they even make a tourist industry around renting out Jeeps and such for the purpose. At least he sounds pretty responsible, and I'm sure his hiking background has given him the insight to see both sides of the fence. Like Silent Cal says, it only takes a few rotten apples like the type he met to ruin it for all the ones who act responsibly!

Max
 

Mike P.

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Good point Max on surf boards, in CT they are converting much of the old rail beds into non-motorized paths & these are being used for bikes & ATV''s illegelly too.

This topic came up a couple of years ago on the AMC boards & someone provided a link to a club in MA that allegedly did low impact events, They still had big holes in brooks & bogs as that was part of the course.

Sorry, I'm biased on the topic, keep them on private property. At least with snowmobiles once teh snow melts there is no evidence they were there.
 

Mike P.

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Here is some low impact from baystatejeepers.com

http://www.baystatejeepers.com/trips/pictures/jeepfest03/2003_0621_111911AA.JPG

Another picture shows where they are, very close to Mt. Greylock as you can make out the summit structures & the slide on the East sside of the peak.

Their home page has a link to the USFS, specifically for keeping theri members involved in their goal of getting access in the WMNF:
 

Bumpsis

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Mike P. said:
Here is some low impact from baystatejeepers.com

That's a great pictute of the "low impact" in practice.
Man, I don't get it. What's the point of churning mud in the woods?
All they do is sit on their asses and rev the engines.

I can undestand the appeal of jeeping over some mountain passes in the Rockies. I guess it's an easy way to get into the mountains for people who are too lazy to get off their buts and hike or bike.
But here??, I really don't get it. :blink:
 

twigeater

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different strokes for different folks...
I can't say I've ever had a problem with anyone on a dirt bike, ATV or snowmobile, so I don't have a negative opinion of them. I'm sorry to hear that others have encountered problems - but just like a hiker who ignores LNT or camps illegally, etc., a few are not necessarily representative of the group. We're all out there for the same (or similar) reasons, only via different modes. Just because we don't choose to do it that way, doesn't mean it's wrong.

There are ATV/Snowmobile trails behind my house, and I utilize them when out walking/snowshoeing/skiing. (is that right, since I don't pay dues to the club that maintains them?) I like that I can walk a couple of miles down the road, then go into the woods and get back to my house via those trails. I take the snowmobile/ATV maps with me on certain hikes and explore them sometimes.

Course I was brought up hiking/camping AND booney stomping in a jeep - what fun memories for a kid. And who doesn't enjoy playing in the mud, LOL? All I gotta do is say "mud season" to my grandkids and we are out in boots and shovels playing in the mud in the driveway. You grow up and have different toys is all.

I'm not saying that what you guys see is right, just offering a different perspective.
 

bigbog

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re:.......

Bumpsis said:
Mike P. said:
.....I can undestand the appeal of jeeping over some mountain passes in the Rockies. I guess it's an easy way to get into the mountains for people who are too lazy to get off their buts and hike or bike.
But here??, I really don't get it. :blink:
I agree with ya' Mike/Bumpsis, where 4x4_wheeling and wilderness WAS....is where Cities and Highways are Now... Not coming down hard vs your hubby Severine, I too was one to an extent...learning to drive the 4WD over winding wood cutting roads up in northern Maine...cutting deeper & deeper into unspoiled woodland. Of course Bumpsis would probably like to make various portions of the AT endless bump runs wherever possible :lol:
 

Bumpsis

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Re: re:.......

[quote="bigbog Of course Bumpsis would probably like to make various portions of the AT endless bump runs wherever possible :lol:[/quote]

For sure, for sure, but only if it's NOT served by ski lifts!!! :D
 
R

rossignol

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Assumptions by non-Jeep owner... Jeeper/hiker comments about

Bumpsis said:
Mike P. said:
Here is some low impact from baystatejeepers.com

That's a great pictute of the "low impact" in practice.
Man, I don't get it. What's the point of churning mud in the woods?
All they do is sit on their asses and rev the engines.

I can undestand the appeal of jeeping over some mountain passes in the Rockies. I guess it's an easy way to get into the mountains for people who are too lazy to get off their buts and hike or bike.
But here??, I really don't get it. :blink:

I too am an avid hiker, but I must disagree with most of your statements about 4-wheeling. I go on the philosophy of treading lightly. The least amount of tire spin, the better!!! I too believe in bringing out what you bring into the woods...

Tell me, have you ever been Jeeping? To say all we do is sit on our asses and rev our engines is quite the statement. Remember, I'm a hiker... I've climbed most of the peaks over 4,000 feet in the White Mountains, I've done winter mountaineering including Washington and Jefferson, and I hike and ski Tuckermans multiple time every year. Do I Jeep because I'm too lazy to get off my ass? Do any of my fellow Jeepers do that? The simple answer is NO...

I Jeep for many of the same reasons I hike, bike, and ski. The main reason would be because I like to get out in Nature, and enjoy the outdoors. I climb mountains, and trek through the woods with my Jeep looking around at the landscape while doing so. It's also a challenge, just as most hikes are. We run hard trails, so the pace is slow, but to get to your destination, it becomes a team effort. Jeepers depend on each other, just as you do hiking. We observe and guide other Jeeps through the tough sections, and we help others when they are stranded.

Isn't it also about getting out and having a good time with friends? Jeeping provides the means for a bunch of people to enjoy the outdoors, even if they are not in the best shape. I have friends that wouldn't go hiking with me, but I can show them why the outdoors is so great in a Jeep... For them it's not the choice of hiking OR Jeeping, it's the choice of most likely sitting around the house or getting out and enjoying the outdoors. Isn't that why you hike? You enjoy the outdoors!!!

And yes, I have been jeeping over mountain passes in the Rockies, and Jeeping in Moab, Utah... But why would you restrict Jeeping to only sensible in those situations? You don't know, you critisize something you don't understand... Did I Jeep Moab because I was too lazy, No... I did it once again for the challenge, and the views... Most of the trails there you would not hike, there is too great a distance sometimes to even bike them... So you Jeep them... Oh yeah, I had my mountain bike and enjoyed the Slick Rock trail, I'd say one of the best bike rides I've ever done...


That's about it, just be more receptive to the manner in which other people enjoy the outdoors... You may be surprised about the simularities they share with you...
 

Stephen

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Rossingol,

Welcome to the boards... hope you come to enjoy it here as much as we have!

I believe Mike's main issue was with people like those picture who are high impact Jeepers. Sometimes the damage seems pointless.

-Stephen
 
R

rossignol

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Reply to Stephen

Very true, but in looking at the picture again, there are definently sections of the trail that that will happen... A 4,000 pound vehicle and mud can be difficult... Mud holes are going to happend, you just need to minimize your impact on the rest of the trail... The mud is part of the challege, and I don't think there is any way to prevent sections like that... I love the mud on my mountain bike, guess I carry that over to the Jeep...
 
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