New Hampshire list of 2012/13 Capital Improvements

[eastern powder baby]

I've skied on a lot of man made snow. Damned if I could identify differences in quality between low e, fan gun, or tripod. Far more likely that recent temperature, humidity, traffic, and time since the last natural snow will have a major effect in perception of quality of snow. And if it ain't natural, it already is pretty crappy so you are splitting hairs on which man made crap is worse.

Agreed. The crux of the matter is that Wildcat has trouble getting terrain open in bad snow years (like this past one) because they have an antiquated system and perhaps an inadequate water supply. My understanding is that newer guns, relative to the ones at Wildcat, can operate in higher temperatures and have higher capacity.

[riverc0il]

Agreed. The crux of the matter is that Wildcat has trouble getting terrain open in bad snow years (like this past one) because they have an antiquated system and perhaps an inadequate water supply. My understanding is that newer guns, relative to the ones at Wildcat, can operate in higher temperatures and have higher capacity.

Which is definitely the pay off. We ski on man made out of necessity, especially early season. If the Kitty can get more terrain open faster, that is super important.

Though given their focus on early season at Attitash, I am not sure one could cite a bad snow year like last year as a crux. Other areas with the same type of snow making system were able to open weeks before Attitash.

Snark aside, they'll definitely be able to get more open sooner with an upgrade and it will then be without a doubt a managerial move if they are delayed past reasonable expectations.

[thetrailboss]

Re: snowmaking differences. I notice when resorts mix more water in the snow than air which results in denser and sometimes icier base snow. Think Sugarbush South vs. North with the latter now having a shorter season and them using more air than water. I do also notice that the tripod/ground guns generally run wetter while the HKD or fan guns can make lighter snow. But you really have to be pretty perceptive to notice the difference.

[eastern powder baby]

Fair enough.

[riverc0il]

But you really have to be pretty perceptive to notice the difference.

So what are you saying, trailboss...

[Geoff]

Re: snowmaking differences. I notice when resorts mix more water in the snow than air which results in denser and sometimes icier base snow. Think Sugarbush South vs. North with the latter now having a shorter season and them using more air than water. I do also notice that the tripod/ground guns generally run wetter while the HKD or fan guns can make lighter snow. But you really have to be pretty perceptive to notice the difference.

My observation is that you simply can't push enough air into the new low E tower guns to make talcum powder snow unless it's stupid-cold out. They're only suitable for blowing paste to create an impervious base. You don't want to ski on it.

[deadheadskier]

Does Killington use the low E tower guns on lower East Fall? Whatever the guns they are using, in the 30 years I've been a skier no snowmaking I've ever skied through has turned me into a glazed donut like I've experienced on lower East Fall the past two Novemebers.

As much as that sucked though, I think there's a positive trade off in operating such equipment early season. At least Killington was able to make snow to ski on at 30 degrees in November when a place like Mount Snow with their famous fanguns was still marketing golf. And regarding the limited "throw" of those guns, that won't be as much of a problem at Attitash and especially Wildcat as it is at Killington. There isn't a trail at Wildcat except for maybe Tomcat Schuss and Bobcat that's even a third the width of Outer Limits. So, "throw", probably isn't a consideration in the snowmaking guns they purchase.

Attitash and Wildcat skiers were PISSED last fall. Of all the major ski areas in New England, they were two of the last to open. Hell, I think Gunstock opened before they did. So, even if the snow product sucks with the type guns they bought, if I were a pass holder at Attitash or Wildcat, I'd be really pleased with this investment. It's protection against extremely warm early season temps like they had to contend with last season.

[snoseek]

Good news for sure and yes I've talked with some long time passholder friends that were indeed pissed about the cat opening so late. Their concerns all along have been peaks commitment to blow snow early like the rest. I would have been disappointed after last fall as a passholder even with the bad weather.

[Newpylong]

If you're going to compare, compare Apples to Apples. When it was 30 at Killington last November/December it was 45 at Mount Snow. 30 degrees is enough to throw out the same amount of slop from a fan gun as air/water, so it has nothing to do with the snowmaking equipment or any investment itself. Last time I checked even Killingtond doesn't make McSludge at 45 degrees.

The entire North Face at Mount Snow is air/water and they have opened just that before in November. They used to do it and they would do it again.

As for Attitash and Wildcat, I am not making excuses (I would be pissed too), but their lack of opening had nothing to do with snowmaking equipment.

Does Killington use the low E tower guns on lower East Fall? Whatever the guns they are using, in the 30 years I've been a skier no snowmaking I've ever skied through has turned me into a glazed donut like I've experienced on lower East Fall the past two Novemebers.

As much as that sucked though, I think there's a positive trade off in operating such equipment early season. At least Killington was able to make snow to ski on at 30 degrees in November when a place like Mount Snow with their famous fanguns was still marketing golf. And regarding the limited "throw" of those guns, that won't be as much of a problem at Attitash and especially Wildcat as it is at Killington. There isn't a trail at Wildcat except for maybe Tomcat Schuss and Bobcat that's even a third the width of Outer Limits. So, "throw", probably isn't a consideration in the snowmaking guns they purchase.

Attitash and Wildcat skiers were PISSED last fall. Of all the major ski areas in New England, they were two of the last to open. Hell, I think Gunstock opened before they did. So, even if the snow product sucks with the type guns they bought, if I were a pass holder at Attitash or Wildcat, I'd be really pleased with this investment. It's protection against extremely warm early season temps like they had to contend with last season.

[deadheadskier]

Wasn't making a dig at Mt. Snow. I do recognize they got screwed worse than anyone last November. Hell, even Stratton 10 miles by the crow North had more favorable snowmaking temps. Maybe Peaks reason for opting for the low E tower guns at Attitash and Wildcat instead of the fan guns they are famous for is they didn't want to run electricity up the trails. My understanding though is that the low E tower guns are as good of a snowgun as there is on the market for making snow in warmer temperatures.