Big Burke announcement

from_the_NEK · Feb 25, 2013

Burke has added a new section to their website focused on the new development plans.

Blog Post: http://www.skiburke.com/burke-blog/a-new-heading/

Construction Plans page: http://www.skiburke.com/our-direction

The Master Plan page doesn't have much on it yet. However there is a link to some guy's video that is a "Pretty Close" guess at future plans ::smile: :razz: ).

You can see renderings of the planned hotel/lodge that is to be built below the Mid-Burke Express.

from_the_NEK · Mar 4, 2013

The Act 250 plans for the Mid-Burke Hotel/Lodge were released late Friday afternoon.
I was pretty close

Lots of interesting details about and around the new hotel. However, the plans did not have a "Master Plan" page showing the rest of the mountain like the Jay applications have had.

From the Bear Den:

The Plan for the main floor. There will be a restaurant on the left side facing the mountain. The bar will be on the left side facing Willoughby Gap. The "Day Lodge" will be in the connector building. And for those of you that are REALLY concerned about such things, the arcade will be on the right side facing Willoughby Gap :popcorn:

.

oldtimer · Mar 4, 2013

Buried in the drawings is a site plan showing that Ginn owns the land to the east of mountain road. wonder if that is just not updated or if true? anyone know?

ALSO- to repeat a thought from a while ago- form_the_NEK is an artist with google maps, pdfs and sketchup- very well done-

from_the_NEK · Mar 4, 2013

oldtimer said:
Buried in the drawings is a site plan showing that Ginn owns the land to the east of mountain road. wonder if that is just not updated or if true? anyone know?

Are you refering to the "Ortho Location Map"? They own a ton of property both sides of the Mtn Road (except between the Main Entrance and the Toll Road) and a lot of the property around Pinkham Road. They even own the land on the other side of Rt 114 where the septic fields and the water intake from the Passumpsic River (for snowmaking) are located. Most of that has been owned by Burke for a long time.
I think Ginn added some property when they were planning a golf course.

from_the_NEK · Mar 4, 2013

If you look at the Commercial Floor plans:

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/imaging/planning/7C0206-13-5/Plans/Plan A - Commercial Layout.pdf

You can see there will be 30 interior parking spaces (12 East wing, 17 West Wing). A "Family Room" (aka daycare), 150 seat restaurant, 190 seat bar, 300 seat (4500 sq ft) day lodge, 3 conference rooms (containing 300, 50, and 135 seats).

This place is going to be big.

The parasailers and hangliders are going to have to find a new place to land.

from_the_NEK · Mar 4, 2013

Exterior parking = 14 Eastside, 14 Westside.
The driveway they are building is going to be crazy. Bank on the lower side is going to be around 30' tall.
The driveway also looks like it is going to cut off the lower section of the Mid-Burke parking area.
Then there will be a footbridge connecting to the existing lots over toward the groomer maintenance building.

For the skiers, there will be a short carpet lift (100-130' long) on the bank that leads up the Mid-Burke Express and another long carpet (400-500' long) in meadow below the new Lodge/Hotel See the purple lines in my pictures above.

from_the_NEK · Mar 4, 2013

Also buried in the plans are improvements to the sidewalks, driveway access points and cross walks in downtown East Burke.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/imaging/planning/7C0206-13-5/Plans/Plan%20S-1%20East%20Burke%20Transportation%20Safety%20and%20Capacity%20Study.pdf

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/imaging/... Transportation Safety and Capacity Study.pdf

halfpintvt · Mar 5, 2013

"Ginn Land"

from_the_NEK said:
Are you refering to the "Ortho Location Map"? They own a ton of property both sides of the Mtn Road (except between the Main Entrance and the Toll Road) and a lot of the property around Pinkham Road. They even own the land on the other side of Rt 114 where the septic fields and the water intake from the Passumpsic River (for snowmaking) are located. Most of that has been owned by Burke for a long time.
I think Ginn added some property when they were planning a golf course.

The Ginn Company does not own any land in Burke. Ginn LA (as in Lubert Adler) was a shareholder in Burke 2000 LLC. Lubert Adler was the majority owner with Ginn having about a 20% stake. The majority of Burke 2000 LLC shares are now owned by Bill Stengar and his partners (the SOS Corp filings show Burke 2000 LLC Personnel of Ariel Quiros and William Kelly) Burke Mountain Academy may have a minority ownership to protect their interests. Ginn owns nothing in Burke and is out of the picture.

oldtimer · Mar 5, 2013

thanks- that clarifies it. Simply a matter of the Act 250 drawings being a tad sloppy.--

halfpintvt said:
The Ginn Company does not own any land in Burke. Ginn LA (as in Lubert Adler) was a shareholder in Burke 2000 LLC. Lubert Adler was the majority owner with Ginn having about a 20% stake. The majority of Burke 2000 LLC shares are now owned by Bill Stengar and his partners (the SOS Corp filings show Burke 2000 LLC Personnel of Ariel Quiros and William Kelly) Burke Mountain Academy may have a minority ownership to protect their interests. Ginn owns nothing in Burke and is out of the picture.

from_the_NEK · Mar 5, 2013

right, which is why I refered to "Burke" as the owner of the land rather than Ginn. I figured Oldtimer was just have having Ginn flashbacks :-D.

xlr8r · Mar 5, 2013

Okay, after taking a closer look at these plans and images at Burke's website, I have noticed that this new lodge/Hotel is exactly the same as the Tram Haus Lodge just twice as big. They just took two of the Tram Haus lodge and put a Lobby between them. The architecture is exactly the same.

see
http://www.skiburke.com/our-direction/
http://www.jaypeakresort.com/lodging/lodging-options/tram-haus-lodge

Talk about being original and allowing Burke to keep its own identity. They are just doing the same thing ASC did with the Grand Summits by building identical buildings at each mountain, and in doing so causing each mountain to lose a bit of its character. The Grand Summits helped ASC go down the drain and the more I look at Jay Peak's and Stenger's plans I think they will follow suit.

Also this most definitely means the end of the mid Burke lodge as this new hotel will have a resturaunt and bar. I also wouldn't expect much parking to remain for the day skier at mid Burke once this is all done.

End of Rant

riverc0il · Mar 5, 2013

Jay's Tram Lodge doesn't strike me as a super original architecture. Pretty straight forward and canned resort styling. I wouldn't accuse Jay of doing the same thing ASC did but they sure aren't being original based on the drawings and it certainly would have been nice to see something at least different and distinctive rather than a complete rehash. But Jay may be trying to cross brand, that visual similarity will certainly fit the bill. The problem is it doesn't really fit Burke as we all knew it. Best get used to the new Burke! Let's see how that dive and bike park fits in...

kingdom-tele · Mar 5, 2013

xlr8r said:
Okay, after taking a closer look at these plans and images at Burke's website, I have noticed that this new lodge/Hotel is exactly the same as the Tram Haus Lodge just twice as big. They just took two of the Tram Haus lodge and put a Lobby between them. The architecture is exactly the same.

see
http://www.skiburke.com/our-direction/
http://www.jaypeakresort.com/lodging/lodging-options/tram-haus-lodge

Talk about being original and allowing Burke to keep its own identity. They are just doing the same thing ASC did with the Grand Summits by building identical buildings at each mountain, and in doing so causing each mountain to lose a bit of its character. The Grand Summits helped ASC go down the drain and the more I look at Jay Peak's and Stenger's plans I think they will follow suit.

Also this most definitely means the end of the mid Burke lodge as this new hotel will have a resturaunt and bar. I also wouldn't expect much parking to remain for the day skier at mid Burke once this is all done.

End of Rant

expecting something else? no different than the cookie cutter condo sprawl they are building. They have to keep it the same in the name of speed. Hourglass is running.

from_the_NEK · Mar 6, 2013

kingdom-tele said:
They have to keep it the same in the name of speed.

Along with the cross branding, that was my thought as well when they said it would look like the Tram House (note to xlr8r... they have been saying the new hotel would look like the Tram Haus lodge almost from the beginning). They didn't want to have to reinvent the wheel to get this hotel built and the Tram Haus is generally considered to be non-controversial in its design. Going with the same design both streamlines the process and makes it cheaper.
That being said, I hope the next hotel(s) they build are more unique. But I will throw this out there, what is a design that "would fit this area" that wouldn't look dated in 15 years? A giant barn (See Sugarbush)? The Burke/Lyn Manor?

One feature on the Phased Development drawing kind of gives away the location of another lodge.

Part of the current project for the new dual hotel/lodge is the addition of a 150,000 gallon water tank near the toll road and a huge propane tank behind the groomer maintenance building. The pipeline path (green area) to the new hotel goes through the parking lot just below the Ski Patrol office, where on the phase plan, there is a "Future Connections for Water Main and Gas Line" (see the red arrow in the picture). Will this be the location of another hotel/lodge, while at the same time sealing the fate of the Old Mid-Burke lodge and Bear Den bar?

noreasterbackcountry · Mar 6, 2013

Great work NEK.

I like to stay positive on what could be a very important project for the area given that anything new always receives more than it's fair share of skepticism in the NEK, but I really have an issue with the cookie cutter design. Having spent a fair amount of time living in NC and Georgia surrounded by McMansions and soulless condos, I find the lack of an original design downright offensive. It's a shame they haven't put more thought and care into keeping a unique character. I mean it isn't like they're hurting for the money to do a better design. I got the sense they purchased Burke because they had more EB-5 investors than they knew what to do with at Jay.

Is it already too late to get them to rethink this?

kingdom-tele · Mar 6, 2013

from_the_NEK said:
Will this be the location of another hotel/lodge, while at the same time sealing the fate of the Old Mid-Burke lodge and Bear Den bar?

not to worry NEK, they will have a nice historical display case built along side the magic carpet people can admire while are transported from the parking lot to the lodge.

I like the idea of the lyn/burke design, but who are we kidding, that doesn't really connotate a vision of progress in this era or provide the bed base for the many thousands enroute to burke.

@NBC: homogeny is easier, if people like jay, they will like burke, don't want to start confusing people with different experiences

thetrailboss · Mar 6, 2013

Burklyn theme would be neat. I bet if enough folks suggested to Steve Wright/Bill Stenger the idea of making it more unique, then they might rethink the design.

Is it as bad as ASC? No, I don't think so, but I have not really inspected the JPR buildings to really know. ASC went for cheap, fast, and um, cheap.

from_the_NEK · Mar 6, 2013

thetrailboss said:
Burklyn theme would be neat. I bet if enough folks suggested to Steve Wright/Bill Stenger the idea of making it more unique, then they might rethink the design.

Is it as bad as ASC? No, I don't think so, but I have not really inspected the JPR buildings to really know. ASC went for cheap, fast, and um, cheap.

I think the boat on getting the facade design changed has already left. Maybe we can hope for future projects but would the designs clash?

I've never been into one of the ASC Grand Summits, so I can't compare quality. However, Jay's buildings seem to be well done.

kingdom-tele · Mar 6, 2013

from_the_NEK said:
I think the boat on getting the facade design changed has already left. Maybe we can hope for future projects but would the designs clash?

did you get the email?

only 12 slots open NEK, get yourself in there. They are looking for local input on how to best preserve its character.

thetrailboss · Mar 7, 2013

Was going to say, ask and ye shall receive:

As I'm sure you've heard by now, big changes are coming to Burke Mountain and we want your input!

While Bill Stenger and Ariel Quiros, owners of Jay Peak Resort and more recently Burke Mountain, have already invested $1 million in snowmaking upgrades, that is just the tip of the iceberg. Over the next three years, over $100 million will be invested into improving Burke Mountain Resort. Three hotel-lodges will be built, creating what Burke needs the most - a bed base on the mountain. Burke's amazing terrain that includes both alpine and mountain bike trails will also be expanded upon with the addition of East Bowl trails and the construction of the best mountain bike park in the world. In addition, a world class tennis facility and aquatic center will be built and open to hotel guests as well as the public.

While we could just build a boring, cookie-cutter resort, that's not our style. We know that, in large part, what makes Burke so special is it's people - their personality and character - and we want to capture that local flavor into the Burke expansion.

You know Burke better than anyone and as we move forward we want your ideas, suggestions and perspective. What do you love about Burke? What makes Burke so special? What parts of the Bear Den should be included in a new bar?

We will be hosting an envisioning session on Friday April 5 from 5:00 to 7:30, and while we'd love to have every single one of you participate, in order to be productive, we need to limit the number to 12. If you want to join in, please send an email to amaclean@jaypeakresort.com with the the following information contained in the email:

How do you know Burke?
How long have you been going to Burke Mountain?
Where do you live?
Your age and gender.

We'll then work to pick an accurate representation of the Burke Mountain community.
Thanks and we look forward to hearing from you!
Best,
Alexandra MacLean
EB-5 Project Manager

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