dlague
Active member
Late to the party I guess wondered where speciation came from.
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Big Burke announcement
- Thread starter the original trailboss
- Start date
Late to the party I guess wondered where speciation came from.
Smellytele
Well-known member
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Love it. Also nice nod that they changed the name of the hotel to the Burke Mountain Lodge. Simple and easy.
steamboat1
New member
What a waste of $50m
Edd
Well-known member
"Q Burke Hotel and Conference Center". It probably didn't take a very long meeting to come up with a better name than that.
I've never been there in the summer but I'm a bit curious now.
I've never been there in the summer but I'm a bit curious now.
MEtoVTSkier
Active member
slatham
Well-known member
How so? Could it have been built for $25M? Is Burke not worthy of a nice Hotel? Or are you just below quota for negative posts?
steamboat1
New member
The ski area isn't worth $50m hotel & all. Peak just paid $36m for Hunter hotel & all.
Well the Hunter hotel did cost $26M to build and I'd imagine the ski area alone is worth more than $10M. So, the resale on the hotel was likely at a bit of a loss, especially when factoring what that hotel would likely cost to build today 12 years later.
That said $50M does seem like a lot for what the property is.
That said $50M does seem like a lot for what the property is.
mister moose
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If I'm an investor, do I care what some EB-5 group spent on it, or do I care about what proven income stream it can generate?
steamboat1
New member
The hotel has no proven revenue stream, it hasn't even opened. As for the ski area it has gone under several times over the past couple of decades. It would be very hard for anyone to put a number on Burke's potential revenue stream.
mister moose
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i think that's my point.
So is the Hotel worth the $50 million that was invested? Likely not. As has been revealed, the costs were allegedly inflated to ensure that some money went to Q himself.
What to watch will be the next two seasons to see if it increases skier days to above 100k.
What to watch will be the next two seasons to see if it increases skier days to above 100k.
Edd
Well-known member
That's going to require an unprecedented (for Burke) level of marketing dollars. I hope they find and spend the money.
steamboat1
New member
Saddleback couldn't make money attracting 100k plus skier visits & investing $40m plus.
Yep.
That's true, but I'd say that Burke has a lot of differences including new lifts, much better location, easy access, a major ski racing academy, a now established bike trail system, etc. Ideally Burke needs as many skier days as it can get.
And did Saddleback actually have over 100k skier days? I recall it being pretty close to Burke at the 75-90 range.
steamboat1
New member
Last available figure is from the 11/12 season with 97k skier visits. It was stated at that time by Farmer (the manager I believe) that skier visits were expected to increase to 130k.
Quoted from a Dec 2012 Portland Herald article: "Its annual skier visits have increased from 15,000 to 97,000, said Farmer, who expects 130,000 visits this season."
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steamboat1
New member
So what do you estimate Burke is worth? Don't forget contractors are still owed close to $5m.
I don't have a clue what it's worth. I was just pointing out that the investment into your example of Hunter likely greatly exceeded its sale price. The cost of the hotel, new six pack and moving the quad to the west side probably exceeded the sale price alone especially when factoring inflation.
That's kind of the way these things work. The value of the asset creation often doesn't add up to what it would sell for on the open market. So, the hope for the developers is that they recoup their investment with operating profits over time.
Take a look at a place like Stratton and their village. They probably have spent 100s of millions on that resort over the years. It wouldn't sell for that, but maybe they made it back over the years through operating profits.
That's kind of the way these things work. The value of the asset creation often doesn't add up to what it would sell for on the open market. So, the hope for the developers is that they recoup their investment with operating profits over time.
Take a look at a place like Stratton and their village. They probably have spent 100s of millions on that resort over the years. It wouldn't sell for that, but maybe they made it back over the years through operating profits.
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