Diesel Fans 2013/14 cars

wa-loaf · Jan 6, 2013

I came across this article that outlines all the diesel cars coming to the US soon. It's great that there will be more options soon (though most are kind of high end) ... maybe it will kick Subaru into bringing their diesel boxer over finally!

http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2013/01/diesel-car-lineup-in-us-for-2013-2014-preview-report/

twinplanx · Jan 6, 2013

I'm a big fan of Diesels, but I'm gonna have to call shenanigans on this whole DEF fiasco.

riverc0il · Jan 6, 2013

The Mazda looks interesting but it really sucks that they didn't bring the wagon over as well, that thing looks sweet.

Looks like VW continues to be the only non-luxury diesel wagon for another year. Will be interesting to see if VW steps up their game when/if Mazda gets the CX5 diesel here.

I think VW is going to have to step up its game a bit in general now that it is having non-luxury competition in this segment. But they seem more interested in hybrids now and I can understand why considering the Jetta Hybrid out performs the diesel in MPG yet still has respectable performance.

wa-loaf · Jan 6, 2013

twinplanx said:
I'm a big fan of Diesels, but I'm gonna have to call shenanigans on this whole DEF fiasco.

What fiasco?

riverc0il said:
The Mazda looks interesting but it really sucks that they didn't bring the wagon over as well, that thing looks sweet.

Looks like VW continues to be the only non-luxury diesel wagon for another year. Will be interesting to see if VW steps up their game when/if Mazda gets the CX5 diesel here.

I think VW is going to have to step up its game a bit in general now that it is having non-luxury competition in this segment. But they seem more interested in hybrids now and I can understand why considering the Jetta Hybrid out performs the diesel in MPG yet still has respectable performance.

I'm surprised the Tiguan doesn't come with a diesel. Supposedly, there's a Passat (Outback type) vehicle coming out in 2014 ... that'd be nice to have in a diesel.

skiNEwhere · Jan 6, 2013

twinplanx said:
I'm a big fan of Diesels, but I'm gonna have to call shenanigans on this whole DEF fiasco.

Yup, I have been strongly considering getting a diesel but because of this DEF situation I'm looking at diesel's 2009 and earlier

wa-loaf · Jan 6, 2013

skiNEwhere said:
Yup, I have been strongly considering getting a diesel but because of this DEF situation I'm looking at diesel's 2009 and earlier

Most of the VWs don't use the Urea stuff. But I don't see the big deal, it's just like keeping your washer fluid full or checking the oil/power steering fluid/air filter or anything else you need to keep track of in your car.

skiNEwhere · Jan 6, 2013

wa-loaf said:
Most of the VWs don't use the Urea stuff. But I don't see the big deal, it's just like keeping your washer fluid full or checking the oil/power steering fluid/air filter or anything else you need to keep track of in your car.

If you run out of it, your car won't start. This was intentionally designed by the EPA to force you to fill it up. I'm always leery of new technology as well. I don't know if this will cause problems 5-10 years down the road.

twinplanx · Jan 6, 2013

wa-loaf said:
Most of the VWs don't use the Urea stuff. But I don't see the big deal, it's just like keeping your washer fluid full or checking the oil/power steering fluid/air filter or anything else you need to keep track of in your car.

11$ a gallon for cow piss?!? Some mofo ranchers must be laughing all the way to the bank!!

Geoff · Jan 6, 2013

twinplanx said:
11$ a gallon for cow piss?!? Some mofo ranchers must be laughing all the way to the bank!!

Or pay sub-$3.00 at the pump at a truck stop.

twinplanx · Jan 6, 2013

Geoff said:
Or pay sub-$3.00 at the pump at a truck stop.

ok, maybe I was exaggerating... A 2.5 gallon jug cost about 9$ wholesale in these parts. Truck Stops may have DEF pumps, but there are NONE on Long Island. The infrastructure needs to vastly improve in order for diesel to recognize its full potential.

riverc0il · Jan 6, 2013

wa-loaf said:
Most of the VWs don't use the Urea stuff. But I don't see the big deal, it's just like keeping your washer fluid full or checking the oil/power steering fluid/air filter or anything else you need to keep track of in your car.

^^^ this. What the heck is the big deal? If a vehicle has it, you have it checked when you service the vehicle. If you do your own service, you're out a few extra bucks and have one more thing to do. This is really preventing diesel from recognizing its potential? There are only two things holding diesel back: negative public perception (of diesel and pump cost, not long run cost) and hybrids getting almost as good MPG (for big vehicles) or better (for compacts) for a price tag sometimes less than diesel, sometimes not.

twinplanx · Jan 6, 2013

riverc0il said:
^^^ this. What the heck is the big deal? If a vehicle has it, you have it checked when you service the vehicle. If you do your own service, you're out a few extra bucks and have one more thing to do. This is really preventing diesel from recognizing its potential? There are only two things holding diesel back: negative public perception (of diesel and pump cost, not long run cost) and hybrids getting almost as good MPG (for big vehicles) or better (for compacts) for a price tag sometimes less than diesel, sometimes not.

"have it checked when you service the vehicle" ??? Do you realize you have to add a few quarts of this magic elixir with every fill up? The consumption of DEF will vary but in my experience those who do more highway miles use more. Maybe I misunderstand your comment but it seems like you think this is like an oil change. Let me assure you that is not the case. I will agree to your final two points though. Again I will have to call shenanigans on special interest groups in those situations as well...

Geoff · Jan 7, 2013

twinplanx said:
ok, maybe I was exaggerating... A 2.5 gallon jug cost about 9$ wholesale in these parts. Truck Stops may have DEF pumps, but there are NONE on Long Island. The infrastructure needs to vastly improve in order for diesel to recognize its full potential.

I guess that makes sense. Long Island wouldn't have much call for long haul truck stops and nobody but local traffic buys fuel in New York because of the taxes. There are a bunch on the DC-NY-Boston-Maine corridor.

twinplanx · Jan 7, 2013

Geoff said:
I guess that makes sense. Long Island wouldn't have much call for long haul truck stops and nobody but local traffic buys fuel in New York because of the taxes. There are a bunch on the DC-NY-Boston-Maine corridor.

Actually there is just to much NIMBYism down here. To even think of building a truck stop would create a ridiculous public uproar. Remember, "if you have it, a truck brought it". Also confused with your "nobody but local traffic..." statement. Do you have any idea how many millions of "nobody's" buy gas every day down here?

Geoff · Jan 7, 2013

twinplanx said:
Actually there is just to much NIMBYism down here. To even think of building a truck stop would create a ridiculous public uproar. Remember, "if you have it, a truck brought it". Also confused with your "nobody but local traffic..." statement. Do you have any idea how many millions of "nobody's" buy gas every day down here?

The point I was trying to make is that local truck fleets have their own local maintanence and DEF supply. It's impractical for a diesel automobile owner to buy a 55 gallon drum of DEF so you pay a premium for plastic jugs.

wa-loaf · Jan 7, 2013

twinplanx said:
"have it checked when you service the vehicle" ??? Do you realize you have to add a few quarts of this magic elixir with every fill up? The consumption of DEF will vary but in my experience those who do more highway miles use more. Maybe I misunderstand your comment but it seems like you think this is like an oil change. Let me assure you that is not the case. I will agree to your final two points though. Again I will have to call shenanigans on special interest groups in those situations as well...

My understanding was the Urea needs to be changed/added only a every few months and not at every fill-up. I'm sure it varies by model, but every fill up is ridiculous.

I don't think a diesel is a great option in a metro area if you are getting one for mileage. They excel at lots of highway miles or back road cruising. If you live in a city a hybrid is more practical mileage wise. TDi's are definitely more fun to drive however. City driving my mpg's drop to the low 30's and I'm averaging 37.5 with mixed driving. The one long all highway trip I took got me 46 mpg and that was cruising at 75-80.

Geoff · Jan 7, 2013

wa-loaf said:
My understanding was the Urea needs to be changed/added only a every few months and not at every fill-up. I'm sure it varies by model, but every fill up is ridiculous.

Yeah. Diesel pickups have an idiot light that goes off with ~1,000 miles before the tank runs out. DEF at the pump at a truck stop is usually about $2.89 per gallon.

That doesn't stop a dealer from price gouging. Check out this Consumer Reports article about a Mercedes dealer:
http://news.consumerreports.org/car...-bit-adblue-over-spending-a-lot-of-green.html

That Consumer Reports Mercedes GL consumed 7.5 gallons of DEF in 16,500 miles. It is indeed something you're intended to do when you change your oil. With my driving pattern, I go past a TA or Pilot truck stop often enough to keep a tank topped off.

Geoff · Jan 7, 2013

twinplanx said:
Actually there is just to much NIMBYism down here. To even think of building a truck stop would create a ridiculous public uproar. Remember, "if you have it, a truck brought it". Also confused with your "nobody but local traffic..." statement. Do you have any idea how many millions of "nobody's" buy gas every day down here?

"Nobody".... I was talking about long haul truckers. An indy trucker delivering or picking up on Long Island isn't likely to buy fuel there due to the cost. Anybody with a local truck fleet on Long Island is going to have their own DEF pump.

Puck it · Jan 7, 2013

wa-loaf said:
My understanding was the Urea needs to be changed/added only a every few months and not at every fill-up. I'm sure it varies by model, but every fill up is ridiculous.

I don't think a diesel is a great option in a metro area if you are getting one for mileage. They excel at lots of highway miles or back road cruising. If you live in a city a hybrid is more practical mileage wise. TDi's are definitely more fun to drive however. City driving my mpg's drop to the low 30's and I'm averaging 37.5 with mixed driving. The one long all highway trip I took got me 46 mpg and that was cruising at 75-80.

Doesn't the gas to diesel become a wash when a gas engine gets 38-40 mpg though?

wa-loaf · Jan 7, 2013

Geoff said:
I go past a TA or Pilot truck stop often enough to keep a tank topped off.

Do you have a diesel?

Puck it said:
Doesn't the gas to diesel become a wash when a gas engine gets 38-40 mpg though?

When solid fun to drive cars attain that mileage, then yes. Most of the gas cars reaching that mileage are small and underpowered. My TDi is a wagon with a ton of room, a six speed, and a very nice interior (don't confuse the JSW with the dumb-ed down sedan). I'm not beating anyone in a drag race, but there is more than enough power for getting up to highway speed and passing. Only thing I miss somewhat is the AWD.

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