More news on apparent decline in snowboarding / increase in skiing

Nick · Feb 18, 2013

http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2020303560_skisalesxml.html

Sales of snowboards and snowboard equipment have slipped 21 percent over the last four years, while sales of skis have climbed 3 percent in the same period, according to SnowSports Industries America, a trade group that tracks the $3.5 billion snow sports and apparel industry.

Baby boomers aren’t the only ones bailing. Last season, alpine skiing replaced snowboarding as the most popular snow sport among kids ages 6 to 17, according to the trade group. That’s the first time in nearly a decade and a troubling sign for snowboard makers battling for a key demographic.

I know we have talked about this before but I anecdotally am seeing the same thing. Like we have said before the fat twin-tip skis that are competent in the park have dug pretty hard into snowboard sales, I would imagine.

From 1990 to 2004, the number of Americans snowboarders jumped about 340 percent, from 1.5 million to 6.6 million, according to the National Sporting Goods Association. In the same period, the number of skiers dropped 48 percent, from 11.4 million to 5.9 million, the trade group said.

Since 2004, however, snowboard participation has dropped 22 percent while skiing has climbed 16 percent, the group said.

thetrailboss · Feb 18, 2013

It's twin tips, the aging demographic, and the economy I think.

Nick · Feb 18, 2013

thetrailboss said:
It's twin tips, the aging demographic, and the economy I think.

The economy would also impact skiers , right? I mean, yes the entire industry took a dip during the past few years but snowboarding was hit disproportional to skiers. The article claims snowboarding down 22% but skiing is up 16%. Granted, that's based on gear sales / etc.... but I think the other parts are right on. It would be fun to be able to ski again a day in the 90's just to visualize the difference again.

Let me finish off that time travel machine :lol:

Cheese · Feb 18, 2013

Nick said:
It would be fun to be able to ski again a day in the 90's just to visualize the difference again.

Keep your skis firmly planted on the snow (no jumping), ski only on trails (no glades, trees or boundary line skiing) and avoid terrain parks and you'll have pretty good idea of what skiing was like back then. Boring!

Mpdsnowman · Feb 18, 2013

I should post that article on a few snowboard sites im on lol...They would probably string me up alive lol..

But this does not shock me. First off ever since the rocker/camber thing of the snowboard came out, ski mfgs adapted quickly. I must admit it is impressive to see what a skier can now do compared to snowboarders when it comes to parks etc...

To ski has always been the original and I think most resorts, parents etc firmly believe one should start out skiing. I see more ski lessons nowadays then snowboard lessons.

As a business man I did expect the snowboard fad to settle down and I think it has..It wont ever go away in fact who knows ...one day skiers and riders will have to get on the lifts with who knows what lol...

Because I can do both I have no allegiance to either side...and yes there are two sides lol... But right now I have to say ski mfg's are moving forward more compared to snowboard mfgs..

But I do have to dissagree that its because parents and older people are now snowboarding...Im more inclined to think its a natural fad business curve in place here....

Nick · Feb 18, 2013

Mpdsnowman said:
I should post that article on a few snowboard sites im on lol...They would probably string me up alive lol..

But this does not shock me. First off ever since the rocker/camber thing of the snowboard came out, ski mfgs adapted quickly. I must admit it is impressive to see what a skier can now do compared to snowboarders when it comes to parks etc...

To ski has always been the original and I think most resorts, parents etc firmly believe one should start out skiing. I see more ski lessons nowadays then snowboard lessons.

As a business man I did expect the snowboard fad to settle down and I think it has..It wont ever go away in fact who knows ...one day skiers and riders will have to get on the lifts with who knows what lol...

Because I can do both I have no allegiance to either side...and yes there are two sides lol... But right now I have to say ski mfg's are moving forward more compared to snowboard mfgs..

But I do have to dissagree that its because parents and older people are now snowboarding...Im more inclined to think its a natural fad business curve in place here....

I do think a lot of the core snowboarding demographic is people my age - upper 20's / lower 30's - who grew up in the 90's when snowboarding was in it's heyday. Yes there are older and younger ones but most of the kids I see today on the slopes - 12 - 18 years old - are all on skis again, or predominantly.

AdironRider · Feb 18, 2013

thetrailboss said:
It's twin tips, the aging demographic, and the economy I think.

Take a look at snowboard prices these days.

When I started ten years ago, I could get a full setup for about half what a comparable ski setup would cost. THose differences are not that vast these days, while ski prices have stayed pretty much constant in relative terms.

dmc · Feb 18, 2013

I blame Burton... Too much... Too expensive...

I've been buying my snowboards from smaller companies... Made in the USA...

Cheese · Feb 18, 2013

I've always shared the trails with boarders but where I ski seems to be really challenging for them. Last year at Mammoth there was a big dump and the groomers had to come out and make passes primarily for the boarders. They were stuck in the deep snow on everything but steeper slopes and walking out of the powder seemed to be frustrating them greatly as skiers passed them by and tracked it all out.

This year skiing off piste in Europe I also witnessed a very competent boarder struggling. Cat tracks, ridge lines and traverses in the bowls were a challenge and every time we came to the run out at the bottom we'd pole out and he'd post hole to his thighs trying to walk out.

So perhaps with the increased popularity of off piste and back country skiing boarders are realizing they're rather limited to the type of runs they can make or the punishment they will encounter to get to or get out of these remote areas.

fbrissette · Feb 18, 2013

Cheese said:
So perhaps with the increased popularity of off piste and back country skiing boarders are realizing they're rather limited to the type of runs they can make or the punishment they will encounter to get to or get out of these remote areas.

That's part of it. There are lots of classic runs/traverses that are not recommended for boarders (Vallée Blanche, Haute route), but mostly, look no further than newschool skiing in the late 90s. Despite the obvious drawbacks of snowboarding (lack of flat land performance - no poles - no skating, having to constantly step in and step out), snowboarders were cool - they had the parks, the attitude and every kid wanted to snowboard. Most kids on skis also secretly wanted to snowboard.

The new school blended the snowboard attitude with new skis and suddenly skiing was cool again. The biggest advantage of snowboarding over skiing was always the coolness/rebel factor. Now that this is mostly gone, I would expect the decline to continue.

St. Bear · Feb 18, 2013

Splitting my time skiing between the Poconos and New England, its funny how different the number of snowboarders there are. Down here its at least 40%, if not half.

BenedictGomez · Feb 18, 2013

Nick said:
Like we have said before the fat twin-tip skis that are competent in the park have dug pretty hard into snowboard sales, I would imagine.

It's huge, and youth drives the trend. Snowboarding was once cool in the 90s and early 00s, and skiing was uncool. Now the trend has almost flipped. The young kids now view skiing as cooler because the variety of tricks and jumps you can do on skis is far greater than what you can do on a snowboard due to having 2 free legs as well as the axis of the spine being less restricted. The irony of this, of course, is that the tricks/jumps is what made snowboarding "cooler" than skiing in the first place.

As usual, the networks and media that cover these movements and trends are well-behind the times. Just as they were slow in noticing the booming popularity and explosion of snowboarding, TV/media are now slow in noticing snowboarding's slipping popularity. They still give top billing to Shaun White and snowboard halfpipe, etc.... but look at the crowds and the kids on the hill, they are the ones who will drive trend, and they're clearly more excited about skis in the park/pipe now than they are about snowboards.

Cheese said:
So perhaps with the increased popularity of off piste and back country skiing boarders are realizing they're rather limited to the type of runs they can make or the punishment they will encounter to get to or get out of these remote areas.

There is no doubt a snowboard is not even close to being as useful of a mountain tool as a pair of skis, which is why you dont see rescue teams on snowboards. But I'm not sure the above is responsible for snowboarding's decline given backcountry is still a very small numerical percentage of folks.

bdfreetuna · Feb 18, 2013

Skiing is becoming prohibitively expensive between lift tickets, travel expenses, gear costs.

The casual skier or rider will go less often, and this leaves the mountains for more dedicated enthusiasts.

My impression based on the average skill level of snowboarders I see vs skiers is that there are more skiers who see their sport as a way of life, and more snowboarders who just like to go once in a while.

I would expect snowboarding to see continued decline and skiing to start to decline as well based on these trends.

dmc · Feb 18, 2013

Splitboard FTW!!!!

Actually - I know that i slow my friends that Tele down in the BC....

That's why i want to be able to AT ski with my skier friends and splitboard with my snowboard friends...

catskillman · Feb 18, 2013

Not sure if it is true, but it seems that snowboards hold up longer than ski's. I have friends who have not had to replace their board in 4 years, I've had 2 pairs of skis in the same period. If that is true across the board sales would be impacted.

Kids want to the opposite of what Mom & Dad do. Young parents these days are snowboarders, hence the uptick in skiers. Also, it is really tough on a 3/4 year old to learn to board. They have difficulty with the bindings, and often their feet are to small to apply the right amount of pressure to turn the board, if you can even find equipment small enough. (As told to me by an instructer friend)

And older folks have difficulty wilh pedaling on the flats, the on/off the butt to buckle in...... Age matters, although age does take its toll on skiers too.

Mpdsnowman · Feb 18, 2013

First off let me say either way is all fun. The styles are different. Now I am older and I didnt start to snowboard because I thought it was cool..I never viewed tubing or sledding or tobogganing or skiing as cool...but fun...

However i did like the fact that I could easily walk around in my boots. I did like the fact I could learn it quickly and I like that it does not take a toll on knees and ankles like skis do....

Believe me I was the oddball on the slopes. Kids kids kids then me...good thing im 5'4 and dressed in snowboard clothes lol...Now there are plenty of peeps in my age and within 15 years on either side of me rippin turns...I think they see the benefits I see and its a different version of fun.

If that takes the coolness out and those of that nature im all good with that.

Lol I figured once Shaun White retires all that crap will go away lol....

But this decline we see I think is nothing more than business curve. Snowboarding accelerated quickly, logic says it declines the same...

Nick · Feb 18, 2013

Boots are nice. I also have talked with vdk03 here who swears on a powder day you just can't beat the feeling of being on a board. I don't know that because I've only done powder on skis (and love it!) but I can see more of an appeal on a wide open piste with powder on a board.

fbrissette · Feb 18, 2013

Nick said:
Boots are nice. I also have talked with vdk03 here who swears on a powder day you just can't beat the feeling of being on a board. I don't know that because I've only done powder on skis (and love it!) but I can see more of an appeal on a wide open piste with powder on a board.

I'm no snowboarder (I've tried a couple of days a long time ago when it was cool...) but I agree that the only time it appeals to me is in powder. It looks so effortless and smooth. Especially when compared to 20 years ago when we were skiing long and thin planks. Fat rockered skis have bridged part of the gap.

Hawkshot99 · Feb 18, 2013

Ski boots should be very comfy as well. I would take my ski boots over any of the snowboard boots I have tried on personelly which is quite a few.

I believe the downfall is because of twin tip skis. Before a person learned to ski as a little kid and then had to switch to the "cool" sport of snowboarding as a early teenager. Now they can learn to ski as a little kid and then switch to "cool" twin tips and not have to learn what they are doing again.

Learning to ski is much easier for the little ones than snowboarding. I know many snowboard reps and die hard boarders who had there kids learn to ski first as it is easier. Then they can switch later if they want.
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Cannonball · Feb 18, 2013

Not saying that there hasn't been a decline in snowboarding vs skiing (it sort of seems like there has been). But just want to point out that equipment sales might not exactly correlate to participation. Somebody else already mentioned that snowboard gear might last longer...which would contribute to slower sales of new gear. Not sure if that's true or not but it could be. But even more so, there has been a lot of new tech released in skiing lately. That drives existing skiers to buy new gear, while existing snowboarders might be happy with what they have.

For example: Personally, I board ~75% and ski ~25%, yet I have bought 3 new pairs of skis in the past 3 years but only one new snowboard. So if I was a statistical n=1, sales would make it look like skiing is 3 times more popular than boarding, while actual participation would make boarding look 3 times more popular that skiing.

More news on apparent decline in snowboarding / increase in skiing

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