Hermitage club

sounds like a plan jeff!

hey look, it's the peanut gallery!

My major problem with the Hermitage Club is that you have to ski Haystack. I don't choose to ski the 'stack now why would if I was "very" or "uber" rich?

madvibes said:

Keep an eye out in games 6 and 7 (if needed) in the Fox 25 Boston area.

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Just saw the add in the middle of the 7th inning. That had to cost some $$

marcski said:

My major problem with the Hermitage Club is that you have to ski Haystack. I don't choose to ski the 'stack now why would if I was "very" or "uber" rich?

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Probably because it's not about the skiing, not really anyway. It's about the Experience, I'm guessing, the exclusivity / etc.

It's like a private golf club. I always thought, why would I want to just play the same course over and over and over and over again?

Quietman said:

Just saw the add in the middle of the 7th inning. That had to cost some $$

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Yup saw it too! Very stepford like if you ask me! Pay big bucks and live there or have a condo on the cape and a condo in the mountains and enjoy two different worlds!

Saw the ad too. By the looks of their website they are dumping tons of money into it between the new lifts and lodge / clubhouse. It's really quite the setup. Haystack is a pretty reasonably sized mountain (second tier, eastern), especially compared to mount snow, which is right next door. Their initial $45k membership fees are steep but nothing really when compared to the yellowstone club at $300k.

So, who is their market...? Someone who is loaded, has a family, likes to ski sort of, and hates crowds...? Someone who is going to hop in a private plane and fly up from NYC or Boston? Or do they drive 3 hours or so from NYC? How many days a year do they ski, 20 to 30...? Do they come in the summer? Is there a rental pool?

Seriously though, these sort of things are a very tough sell. If you look at what happened with Bear Creek and Ascutney in the last few years, I would be careful buying any ski property at an area that is not 100% sure to keep operating in the future. People get very sue happy about such things.

Personally, if I lived in a major metro area and had the funds, I would buy a property at Stowe (on mountain or very close), and fly into Burlington airport on a commuter flight on the weekends, leaving a car there during the week.

Haystack was one of the places I learned to ski and I have a lot of very fond memories of it but I cannot for the live of me imagine spending $45,000 + annual dues to ski there.

It seems to me that a big part of the reason people pay big country club fees is for the "club" social aspect. Are you really going to get that at a place that isn't local to where you live? And if you're going to move to Vermont aren't there superior luxe options?

Highway Star said:

So, who is their market...? Someone who is loaded, has a family, likes to ski sort of, and hates crowds...? Someone who is going to hop in a private plane and fly up from NYC or Boston? Or do they drive 3 hours or so from NYC? How many days a year do they ski, 20 to 30...? Do they come in the summer? Is there a rental pool?

Seriously though, these sort of things are a very tough sell. If you look at what happened with Bear Creek and Ascutney in the last few years, I would be careful buying any ski property at an area that is not 100% sure to keep operating in the future. People get very sue happy about such things.

Personally, if I lived in a major metro area and had the funds, I would buy a property at Stowe (on mountain or very close), and fly into Burlington airport on a commuter flight on the weekends, leaving a car there during the week.

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The problem with the commuter flight is it's the bus. You have to get to the airport an hour early for security, and you have to leave when the bus leaves. If you have a last minute urgent business mini crisis, you end up missing the bus.

So if you have the $$, you take your own plane. If you get your license you can fly yourself, but not in the winter. To fly into VT in the winter you need a fully de-iced instrument capable airplane, and the skill to fly it. This is an extremely rare breed. At times you will still be weathered out when the airport goes below minimums in the usual low overcast glook that abound in VT in the winter.

Then you have the logistics trade off. To fly, you have to pack the car, drive 45 min to an hour to the airport, unpack the car and pack the airplane. Do a pre-flight, get your clearance, and taxi out to the line to wait for take-off. Then land at Bondville, Morrisville, Springfield, Rutland, BTV or Newport. Taxi, tie down. Brush off the car, unpack the plane and pack the car and drive 15-40 minutes to your ski house. Still sound good? Add up the time overhead to fly, and for short distances like Mt Snow, it doesn't make sense from NYC or Boston. And that's where the money is. The only thing that makes sense timewise is a twin engine fully IFR helicopter that lands on your lawn, but you still are weathered out for icing. Which is a lot. If the forecast bombs while you're in VT you have to leave the plane and drive home. And the icing on the cake if you're the pilot is you can't drink a beer all Friday and all Sunday.

Haystack is marketing to a niche within a niche within a niche. You need someone wealthy enough, who likes skiing enough to drop some serious $$ on a membership and a home, but not good enough and not passionate enough to care about the skiing all that much. It's the equivalent of buying that expensive 8 person hot tub, and only bothering to use it twice a year. Somone who wants to drive 3 hours for an exclusive compound style VT weekend, and maybe ski a little if they feel like it.

I have no doubt this person exists. What I do doubt is that they exist in sufficient numbers to float the club.

mister moose said:

The problem with the commuter flight is it's the bus. You have to get to the airport an hour early for security, and you have to leave when the bus leaves. If you have a last minute urgent business mini crisis, you end up missing the bus.

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Looking at the schedule for NYC to Burlington flights tomorrow, they have about ten flights throughout the day, but I picked 5pm. The only good return flight is at 7pm Sunday. $437 round trip on Jet Blue. For someone who owns a million dollar property at Stowe, pays $1800 for a pass, and keeps a range rover at the Burlington airport - that's a pretty good deal. Hop a cab to the airport, don't check any bags, one hour flight, grab your own car and drive a half hour or so to you ski house....yes, I'd hit that in a second.

Not bad for someone with the cash.

I remember when Jet Blue first started flying to Burlington. Round Trip fair to NYC at the time was $99. Then again gas was a buck a gallon back then, so airlines must have been a helluva a lot cheaper to operate too.

Gut feeling is that it fails miserably, but will be interesting to watch.

bobbutts said:

Gut feeling is that it fails miserably, but will be interesting to watch.

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In their print ads they run in the local, Mount Snow/Deerfield Valley weekly paper they have said that to date they have over 100 members signed up so far. And that was/is before much of the ongoing infrastructure work relating to the ski area and base lodge really got going.

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interesting idea...... bretton woods is relatively flat and so is stratton. both places cater to the "well to do" and both places are thriving.

so if HC can add some things that makes it worth it to them then it might work. if I think about it as a getaway from the daily grind that makes me easily in the upper 6 figures, I'm having a blast on hero snow conditions with no crowds... then HC did their job well.

oh yeah... they must have gourmet type eating establishment, massages and elegant health spas..... the well to do likes to be pampered.

jack97 said:

interesting idea...... bretton woods is relatively flat and so is stratton. both places cater to the "well to do" and both places are thriving.

so if HC can add some things that makes it worth it to them then it might work. if I think about it as a getaway from the daily grind that makes me easily in the upper 6 figures, I'm having a blast on hero snow conditions with no crowds... then HC did their job well.

oh yeah... they must have gourmet type eating establishment, massages and elegant health spas..... the well to do likes to be pampered.

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This is a little more than the Stratton and BW crowd, with a starting point of 45k just to sniff their air.

Smellytele said:

This is a little more than the Stratton and BW crowd, with a starting point of 45k just to sniff their air.

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Not when you think of the Stratton local who owns a condo or house, belongs to the slope side club, pays to play golf, etc etc. Oh, and they have to put up with those pesky day trippers and other locals who make it so crowded on weekends and ski off all the powder!!! For many of them the $45k is pocket change, so the cost/benefit works.

Me, I have a more cost-effective method of avoiding the Stratton pitfalls - Bromley and Magic! But thats just me.........

slatham said:

......Oh, and they have to put up with those pesky day trippers and other locals who make it so crowded on weekends and ski off all the powder!!! For many of them the $45k is pocket change, so the cost/benefit works.

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yep. if i have the cash and if I want hero snow and terrain with no crowds then it may be worth it to me.

jack97 said:

yep. if i have the cash and if I want hero snow and terrain with no crowds then it may be worth it to me.

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This is the key selling point right here. Sure Haystack isn't going to get the snow of northern VT, but with so few people, it won't half to.

I agree with others that it's going to be a tough sell, but I can at least see where they're coming from.

How much annual snowmaking budget, lift ops, ongoing fees to cover these?
saying 100 people are already on board without knowing how many are needed minimally to make it work doesn't erase the skepticism

jack97 said:

yep. if i have the cash and if I want hero snow and terrain with no crowds then it may be worth it to me.

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If you have that much cash I would just fly to SLC all the time.