Wildcat behind the pack this year

Let's see what Peak does after this "whatever could go wrong, probably did" season at Wildcat. They put a VERY solid person in at GM this past year (and Tim Boyd, CEO of Peak could of easily put one of his boys in as GM there as he has at other Peak properties, but chose an operations based guy with a very solid track record with multiple ski companies in the East + West) - let's see what Brian can do when he likely has lot's more "attention" from corporate HQ.

I know from talking Sunday afternoon with a pretty high up Peak operations guy, that while overall they had some serious issues with snowmaking at Wildcat this past season, when it was running, they got some very good production data from the multi manufacturer air/water gun test they did this season, and company wide ordering has been authorized based on those results

^^^^^I'll believe it when I see it happen. For now I hope they either sell or go under and have to sell. Either solution would be ok with many local NH people I've talked to

drjeff said:

Let's see what Peak does after this "whatever could go wrong, probably did" season at Wildcat. They put a VERY solid person in at GM this past year (and Tim Boyd, CEO of Peak could of easily put one of his boys in as GM there as he has at other Peak properties, but chose an operations based guy with a very solid track record with multiple ski companies in the East + West) - let's see what Brian can do when he likely has lot's more "attention" from corporate HQ.

I know from talking Sunday afternoon with a pretty high up Peak operations guy, that while overall they had some serious issues with snowmaking at Wildcat this past season, when it was running, they got some very good production data from the multi manufacturer air/water gun test they did this season, and company wide ordering has been authorized based on those results

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when will Mt Snow take delivery of them?

Brad J said:

when will Mt Snow take delivery of them?

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I have heard from very good sources that there are at least 3 states that new products will be heading too in the Peak portfolio. One of those states has 2 words with the 1st word starting with an N and the last word ends with an E ;-)

drjeff said:

I have heard from very good sources that there are at least 3 states that new products will be heading too in the Peak portfolio. One of those states has 2 words with the 1st word starting with an N and the last word ends with an E ;-)

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Damm Crotched must be very excited !!!!!

Brad J said:

Damm Crotched must be very excited !!!!!

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Undeniably funny. Points awarded.


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It's amazing how Crotched is actually a pretty solid operation and amazing considered to their Granite State brothers. If Wildcat had half of Crotched's snowmaking... Perfect

No complaints at all about Crotched this season except they could probably use a better lift mechanic. The Rocket seemed to go down everyday I was there. Their commitment to snowmaking and resurfacing after bad weather was top notch.

sull1102 said:

It's amazing how Crotched is actually a pretty solid operation and amazing considered to their Granite State brothers. If Wildcat had half of Crotched's snowmaking... Perfect

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Clearly you have not spent a lot of time on the Crotched Rocket. Then again, that would be hard to do considering how frequently it breaks,

With that said, you are right. I'm just not lucky enough to see Wildcat receive a fan gun snowmaking system capable of burying the entire mountain and resurfacing the whole thing in two days like Crotched can. It's just not a realistic expectation given the dramatically different acreage.


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yeggous said:

Clearly you have not spent a lot of time on the Crotched Rocket. Then again, that would be hard to do considering how frequently it breaks,

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I was there for the last 3 weekends in March, and it never was down. Hopefully they have most of the issues worked out.

It did come second hand from Ascutney after sitting idle for a good bit.

deadheadskier said:

No complaints at all about Crotched this season except they could probably use a better lift mechanic. The Rocket seemed to go down everyday I was there. Their commitment to snowmaking and resurfacing after bad weather was top notch.

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I wonder if they will do anything about the pond? It sounds like their commitment to snowmaking is undermined by their water capacity.


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Savemeasammy said:

I wonder if they will do anything about the pond? It sounds like their commitment to snowmaking is undermined by their water capacity.


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I know that this has moved to the top of their priority list, but it is not an easy fix. Expanding the pond capacity is unlikely the be practical or the right solution. There is talk of pumping uphill from a swamp down the street. I imagine this involves a lot of permitting and will not be cheap.


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sull1102 said:

It did come second hand from Ascutney after sitting idle for a good bit.

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A big factor with the Rocket is that it (and Crotched's West Double) run more hours per week than any other lifts in the east. Mon-Thur 9am-9pm, Fri-Sat 9am-3am, and Sun 9am-5pm. That's about 92 hours per week and more like 96 with startup and shutdown, and it doesn't leave much time for preventive maintenance. The average lift at a major resort without night skiing runs about 50-55 hrs a week. That is a big difference!

Quietman said:

A big factor with the Rocket is that it (and Crotched's West Double) run more hours per week than any other lifts in the east. Mon-Thur 9am-9pm, Fri-Sat 9am-3am, and Sun 9am-5pm. That's about 92 hours per week and more like 96 with startup and shutdown, and it doesn't leave much time for preventive maintenance. The average lift at a major resort without night skiing runs about 50-55 hrs a week. That is a big difference!

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Never really thought about that! That is a whole bunch of hours! We actually like Crotched better than Pats Peak and the new chair helps to solidify that thought. However, we do not ski either that often! In fact, this year 1 time a Pats (freebie) and 0 at Crotched.

Interesting how this thread morphed into a Crotched discussion!

This has been an interesting discussion about Peak Resorts in general.

One observation now seven years out from the complete sinking of ASC is how the successors are faring. Then Boyne was a favorite as was Peak Resorts with POWDR very FAR behind in terms of popularity and likability. Now it seems as if Peak and POWDR have swapped spots and just can't do anything right in the eyes of many or just doesn't have the resources.

The folks at Sunday River and Sugarloaf have been largely very happy. Sure Sugarloafers do feel a bit cheated that they have not seen as much investment as SR (Chondola vs. Skyline Quad for example, later start, etc). But overall my experience both there and listening to folks on here is that they are very happy and loyal to Boyne. Throw in Loon as well...some good investments there and some expansion as well. A few years back someone on here told me about how impressive Loon's snowmaking infrastructure was now and how fast they could make snow. All of this was done pretty quietly. It seems like Boyne has been very consistent.

POWDR started out as a complete trainwreck in so many ways. But, seven years out, the management has changed. No Pico Interconnect nor any significant changes with lifts (except for Skye Peak HSQ). The new summit lodge looks impressive. No village either. But the new manager seems to be giving the (remaining) loyalists what they want. Call it better than it was. A lot of things that were broken have been fixed and a lot of deferred maintenance has been done, even if it meant tearing down old lifts that were too expensive to maintain and saw little if any traffic (RIP Devil's Fiddle and South Ridge Triple).

I for one was very, very surprised in the Spring of 2007 when ASC announced that Peak Resorts was the suitor for Mount Snow AND Attitash for a cool $90 mill or so IIRC. The successive sales were all announced within a short time and there was speculation. But I never saw Peaks as in the mix...maybe Triple Peaks (Sunapee-Okemo-Crested Butte) but not little Peak Resorts and their chain of feeder hills. I saw this as a huge change for Peak which, up until then, had operated on a relatively small budget and whose last project, Crotched in 2003, was done using hand-me-down lifts, a no-frills lodge, and no lodging or housing. Going from a "day" area such as Crotched to a RESORT such as Mount Snow was a huge leap. You're now talking about having to run restaurants, lodging, summer operations, events, etc. on top of handling much more infrastructure that is older and many, many more employees. Attitash was the same, to a lesser extent.

From what I saw, folks (like our own drjeff) were VERY happy with Mount Snow; Crotched folks were stoked to have two "resorts" added to their passes, and Attitash just seemed, well, meh. Attitash has always seemed to be meh (we don't have a large following here). As things went along it just looked like Attitash was limping along...nothing really big happening there for improvements. No real plan with it. Just on autopilot.

So hearing about Wildcat's sale was good (it had been on the market for some time), but slowly I've heard more grumbles about Peak and their tight resources. Their IPO disappeared I guess.....maybe that was going to be their funding for Wildcat. I have not skied Wildcat. I hiked it in 2008 via the ski trails and observed the infrastructure that was quite old and the very old school terrain stretched up and down the mountain. The lodge was pretty basic from memory and the base area small. No frills indeed. Besides old snowmaking, I also so some older lifts. A lot of capital would be needed. IIRC the family that owned it had it on the market for many, many years with not many interested buyers. They just kept it going as it was with no real improvements for many years and many bandaids from what I saw. So maybe Peak bit off more than they could chew on this one.

Wildcat is kind of similar to Burke in terms of numbers and situation. It is a local's place with (generally) older infrastructure, lots of acreage that makes expanded snowmaking very costly, a bit out of the way, and currently limited streams of revenue. Burke has much more developable land than Wildcat, but then again in my lifetime there have been so many "master plans" that have never come to fruition despite how "inevitable" it seemed that it would.

As to Cranmore/Jiminy buying it, that might be a possibility. I don't know much about them, other than they did a lot at Jiminy and took over a (relatively) modern Cranmore that had significant upgrades in the late 1980's, an infusion of $$$$ from LBO and ASC in the 1990's, and had been well kept by Booth Creek. Wildcat needs a lot of TLC and is much larger and more intensive than Cranmore. It also is not right in downtown Conway.

thetrailboss said:

As to Cranmore/Jiminy buying it, that might be a possibility. I don't know much about them, other than they did a lot at Jiminy and took over a (relatively) modern Cranmore that had significant upgrades in the late 1980's, an infusion of $$$$ from LBO and ASC in the 1990's, and had been well kept by Booth Creek. Wildcat needs a lot of TLC and is much larger and more intensive than Cranmore. It also is not right in downtown Conway.

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I don't see Jiminy buying it. Jiminy has a base village and Cranmore has one in the works. They also have mountain coasters and Cranmore has tubing. Like you said, Wildcat is a locals mountain. Not a resort. That's what the Fairbank's would do to Wildcat.

ss20 said:

I don't see Jiminy buying it. Jiminy has a base village and Cranmore has one in the works. They also have mountain coasters and Cranmore has tubing. Like you said, Wildcat is a locals mountain. Not a resort. That's what the Fairbank's would do to Wildcat.

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Thanks for the info. I only (vaguely) knew that the Jiminy folks were involved with Cranmore but nothing more specific. I just don't see Wildcat as being their ideal thing.

Let's see what 2 million in upgrades will do for Wildcat's snowmaking this coming season

http://skiwildcat.com/press-room.html?key=5581

Looking forward to it. Probably going to skip getting a pass there this season and just get a Vertical Value card for next season, a few other discount cards and wonder a bit. If things are much improved, I'll gladly get a pass there again down the road.