• Welcome to AlpineZone, the largest online community of skiers and snowboarders in the Northeast!

    You may have to REGISTER before you can post. Registering is FREE, gets rid of the majority of advertisements, and lets you participate in giveaways and other AlpineZone events!

Let's see if this has any legs!

MadMadWorld

Active member
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
4,082
Points
38
Location
Leominster, MA
What do you mean then? Advanced snowboarders dont mogul mash.

If you hear the dreaded Scritchshhhhhhhhhhhhhh sound, it's pretty much a given they're not good snowboarders.



Yes, you've said that before in the same thread I was referencing, and you cant base it on that, as you're inserting flawed logic into the calculus. You need to look at it from the standpoint of similar cohorts starting from precisely the same baseline, just like a scientific study would.

You just said that your basing your opinion off observation so how is that any better?
 

deadheadskier

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
27,921
Points
113
Location
Southeast NH
I could care less about the skill level or what method some chooses to slide down a trail I'm skiing on, mogul trail or otherwise. Yes I'm aware some styles of snow sliding can damage conditions more quickly than others. As long as they are following the code and not cutting me or others off I really don't care.

Getting upset and supporting policies that restrict access to such skiers or riders is the skiing equivalent of "get off my lawn" IMO. That Alta video at the start of the thread supports that belief.
 

C-Rex

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
1,350
Points
0
Location
Enfield, CT
You just said that your basing your opinion off observation so how is that any better?

Because it's HIS observation. Forget the fact that he's discounting all the other variables in his "scientific" study. Things like age, general athleticism, experience with activities that parallel skiing/boarding, skill of the instructor, etc.
 

BenedictGomez

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
12,125
Points
113
Location
Wasatch Back
You just said that your basing your opinion off observation so how is that any better?

Because my observation is exactly how that sort of "study" would be made.

With equal-aged cohorts at precisely the same baseline, getting precisely the same hours of instruction, on precisely the same terrain, for precisely the same number of days. If a true study of such a thing were made, that's exactly how it would be structured. So on this subject, I consider my "observation" to be pretty dang good. The beginning snowboarders were generally substantially more advanced than the beginning skiers in their abilities and terrain-handling when they left. Enough so that you would definitely notice.
 

MadMadWorld

Active member
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
4,082
Points
38
Location
Leominster, MA
Because my observation is exactly how that sort of "study" would be made.

With equal-aged cohorts at precisely the same baseline, getting precisely the same hours of instruction, on precisely the same terrain, for precisely the same number of days. If a true study of such a thing were made, that's exactly how it would be structured. So on this subject, I consider my "observation" to be pretty dang good. The beginning snowboarders were generally substantially more advanced than the beginning skiers in their abilities and terrain-handling when they left. Enough so that you would definitely notice.

I had 8 seasons of observation as a ski instructor and talking with snowboard instructors as well. I taught at 2 mountains that would both be considered learning mountains. A true study on this matter would really be taken with a grain of salt. How do you quantify a person's prgression? It's all subjective.
 

BenedictGomez

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
12,125
Points
113
Location
Wasatch Back
A true study on this matter would really be taken with a grain of salt. How do you quantify a person's prgression? It's all subjective.

You could do a "true study" on this if you cared, and it could be done qualitatively and quantitatively, not all subjectively.

Regardless, whenever this subject comes up you and C-Rex make this argument. It completely flies in the face of the generally accepted belief that skiing is more difficult to learn than snowboarding. I dont even think we need a Mythbusters episode for this.

Seems like common sense to me that 4 edges are harder to learn to control than 2 edges.

Seems to me like 2 loose legs operating non-independently and the numerous ways this alters and can throw you off axis/balance is harder to initially learn to control and maintain (not to mention the beginning skier nemesis of tip-hooking).

Seems to me that having poles and learning what to do with them is a completely separate skill that exists in one sport that doesnt even exist in the other sport.

I could go on, but the WHY, admittedly is the subjective part. The way I mentioned a study would be run is not.
 

SnowRock

Active member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
320
Points
28
Location
Jersey City, NJ
What do you mean then? Advanced snowboarders dont mogul mash.

If you hear the dreaded Scritchshhhhhhhhhhhhhh sound, it's pretty much a given they're not good snowboarders.

Snowboarders at all levels will make that sound sometimes. Its because the weight of a rider is only being applied to a single edge versus two in the case of a skier. So while I may agree that bad snowboarders can more easily sideslip for longer periods of time down a hill, I actually disagree that the boards themselves cause more damage, they simply make a different sound because all of the weight is being applied to one edge and its easier to hear therefore skiers assume its moving more snow when its not.
 

MadMadWorld

Active member
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
4,082
Points
38
Location
Leominster, MA
You could do a "true study" on this if you cared, and it could be done qualitatively and quantitatively, not all subjectively.

Regardless, whenever this subject comes up you and C-Rex make this argument. It completely flies in the face of the generally accepted belief that skiing is more difficult to learn than snowboarding. I dont even think we need a Mythbusters episode for this.

Seems like common sense to me that 4 edges are harder to learn to control than 2 edges.

Seems to me like 2 loose legs operating non-independently and the numerous ways this alters and can throw you off axis/balance is harder to initially learn to control and maintain (not to mention the beginning skier nemesis of tip-hooking).

Seems to me that having poles and learning what to do with them is a completely separate skill that exists in one sport that doesnt even exist in the other sport.

I could go on, but the WHY, admittedly is the subjective part. The way I mentioned a study would be run is not.

I think you have me and DHS confused. I actually agreed with you throughout most of this thread but you lost me with this one.

I doubt you can get either a qualitative or quantitative study for the simple fact that skiing and snowboarding are 2 different sports and progression is measured completely different.
 

thetrailboss

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
32,336
Points
113
Location
NEK by Birth
So I've deliberated on this one long and hard, and I've only got one thing to say:

Bumper_stkr_ALTA.jpg
 

bdfreetuna

New member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
4,300
Points
0
Location
keep the faith
I suppose so, but it just gives me a slightly negative "gimmicy" view of Skullcandy now. Then again, I'm not their 17 year old target demo.

I would have thought by naming their brand Skullcandy they were going for the whole gimmicky, slightly negative image in the first place.
 

snoseek

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
6,260
Points
113
Location
NH
Because my observation is exactly how that sort of "study" would be made.

With equal-aged cohorts at precisely the same baseline, getting precisely the same hours of instruction, on precisely the same terrain, for precisely the same number of days. If a true study of such a thing were made, that's exactly how it would be structured. So on this subject, I consider my "observation" to be pretty dang good. The beginning snowboarders were generally substantially more advanced than the beginning skiers in their abilities and terrain-handling when they left. Enough so that you would definitely notice.
Again, a REAL life study: Taos skis the EXACT same now as it did before lifting the ban. That is my observation.
 

MadMadWorld

Active member
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
4,082
Points
38
Location
Leominster, MA
I just believe there is a market for skier only. Snowboarders may not like it but I believe that many who go to Deer Valley go because of it. If that market dies you will see boarders on all of them.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

People go to Deer Valley because they're self important douches. Talk about a mountain I will never visit.
 

snoseek

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
6,260
Points
113
Location
NH
Deer Valley is great skiing IMO. Sure there is a high concentration of wealth but most of those people are fine....and many can't handle the good stuff DV has to offer. I skied Northstar today, same sorta thing. Almost everyone is nice if you're nice first. If they're not then fuck em
 
Top