Vermont is 19 out of 50 based on state per capita income. It only seems poor in comparison to the states that surround it. CT #3, MA #4, NH #6 NY #7. Have you been to the South? Mississippi makes Vermont look like a real Norman Rockwell scene.
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Mount Snow seeking EB5 investors for Snowmaking, Lodge, and Real-Estate expansions
- Thread starter Euler
- Start date
Vermont is 19 out of 50 based on state per capita income. It only seems poor in comparison to the states that surround it. CT #3, MA #4, NH #6 NY #7. Have you been to the South? Mississippi makes Vermont look like a real Norman Rockwell scene.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
There's no doubt the s.NH population likely gives the state a boost.
But the fact NH doesn't bludgeon the hell out of every business in the state and stab it with knives like VT does, doesnt hurt either.
dlague
Active member
Work visas and EB5 are totally different - work visas allow people to come work here for seasonal jobs. EB5 programs require $500,000 investment into an approved economic development project in the US to get a green card to live here and eventually become a naturalized citizen. The investment into project has to produce at least 10 permanent full-time jobs.
As far as Mount Snow using it for snowmaking - it will be interesting if they succeed. Jay Peak and Burke have yet to use this type of funding for snowmaking. As far as I know, I think it is in part due to this requirement - at least 10 permanent full-time jobs!
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Correct.
But you wouldn't believe how fraudulent the accounting for those jobs is. It can essentially be make-believe.
For instance, you can say that some hoses for the snow-making guns will be sourced through a Vermont company, and that Vermont company will make so much money that they will hire 3 people, and....VOILA...., you're 1/3 of the way to covering a $500,000 EB-5.
But it gets even worse than that. If you're Jay Peak it's REALLY easy to fudge the numbers, because you can make all sorts of claims. The additional people the waterpark brings in sells more food and beverages, so an additional Pepsi Cola driver and an additional Frito-Lay truck driver will be required, etc..... it can get ridiculous.
Net/net, I have ZERO doubt that Mt Snow or any other entity will have a problem "showing" jobs created. Whether those jobs ARE created, and lasting, I overtly call BS.
dlague
Active member
I was on FB and a HS classmate of mine who lives near Jay Peak had gotten into debates with others on the EB5 program and I found his statement to be a little shocking!
Now there will be those who may crank out higher wages, create their own businesses, etc that make the opportunities work from the "new population moving into the area" and others will fall into the trap above! Many are not pleased with the way this is all working while others are all for it! They will never make everyone happy even the Government fails at that!
I no longer live up there and from my perspective something seems to be working to some degree. I have talked to people who work at Jay Peak and guess what - they are not all from around there - they moved there to take advantage of the new growth!
Now there will be those who may crank out higher wages, create their own businesses, etc that make the opportunities work from the "new population moving into the area" and others will fall into the trap above! Many are not pleased with the way this is all working while others are all for it! They will never make everyone happy even the Government fails at that!
I no longer live up there and from my perspective something seems to be working to some degree. I have talked to people who work at Jay Peak and guess what - they are not all from around there - they moved there to take advantage of the new growth!
AdironRider
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Yeah take the southern most 10 miles of NH out of the equation and Id wager the state would be hurting in those stats.
Its amazing what SNH used to be to what it is now. My hometown of Exeter was actually attainable for a blue collar family to get into 25 years ago. Now not so much. All of it is from Mass work commuters.
Its amazing what SNH used to be to what it is now. My hometown of Exeter was actually attainable for a blue collar family to get into 25 years ago. Now not so much. All of it is from Mass work commuters.
AdironRider
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So much this.
Jay has gotten so much cash its laughable. They have to have created hundreds of full time jobs at this point. Yeah sure they have...
Is the 52 million the amount Mt Snow is trying to raise? If that's the case, does anyone really believe they are going to create 1040 full time permanent positions?
dlague
Active member
I would say significantly further north than 10 miles - Draw a line from Lebanon/Hanover to Concord to Portsmouth including those locations and everything south makes up the core of the incomes.
dlague
Active member
Heall Noooo!
Euler
Active member
Yeah...the article says they will create 1,000 full time positions. Absolutely ludicrous. Beyond the fact that its a sham in that far fewer jobs will be created than is claimed and most of the jobs will not pay a living wage, what really gets me is the way this s$#ts on the sentiment our country USED to have of accepting the downtrodden...the land of opportunity..."give me your tired, your poor, etc."
Makes me want to crank up the Lou Reed:
"Give me your hungry, your tired, your poor I'll piss on 'em
That's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses
Let's club 'em to death
And get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard"
Now we want your wealthy, your privileged, your 1%. ...
But I digress. No politics. Oops.
AdironRider
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That's quite a wavy line.
But come on, Deerfield, Ashland, and all those other interior towns aren't making much money. Hell even Epping.
Its really just the five or so towns on the Seacoast, the southern wealthy burbs of midstate (Bow and Hollis, etc) and Hanover.
mister moose
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Just thinking out loud here....
In Vermont, the thinking for school budgets is the wealthy towns don't get to keep all the money raised. A lot of the money goes to the less fortunate towns, ie there is revenue sharing to even out town school budgets.
Why doesn't the State do that with EB5 Resort revenue? That way, little places like Magic, Ascutney, Middlebury, MRG and Cochran's can get access to some much needed capital, and there's less arbitrary handouts to the chosen few.
Yeah, I know it's more complicated than that, but......
In Vermont, the thinking for school budgets is the wealthy towns don't get to keep all the money raised. A lot of the money goes to the less fortunate towns, ie there is revenue sharing to even out town school budgets.
Why doesn't the State do that with EB5 Resort revenue? That way, little places like Magic, Ascutney, Middlebury, MRG and Cochran's can get access to some much needed capital, and there's less arbitrary handouts to the chosen few.
Yeah, I know it's more complicated than that, but......
AdironRider
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That sounds like communism.
xlr8r
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This EB5 program make me less inclined to visit mountains that use it, . I do not like how it has become a crutch for all these ski mountains, especially Jay. But it is unfair to the competition that do not rely on it, as IMO it is free money in many ways for these resorts. I know it has some benefits to the local communities, but I also feel those will only be temporary, and have been over exaggerated.
Do you think the EB5 programs would have to exist if the Mountains could get funding through traditional banks? Banks are so tight with lending it's sad that companies have to look into a program like this.
Is this due to the high risk banks would have to take lending to ski resorts that are already heavily leveraged?
Is this due to the high risk banks would have to take lending to ski resorts that are already heavily leveraged?
dlague
Active member
One less skier at Jay. I have been and still will go to Jay! I will still ski Ragged too!
LonghornSkier
Active member
That's a very deceiving stat... I bet most people would say Georgia, Texas, North Dakota, and Utah for example, are in better economic shape than Vermont(All of those states are below VT in per capita income).
gostan
New member
I assume that you are all aware that the original minimum EB5 investment figure was $1M, but Senator Leahy/Vermont had it reduced to $500K.
Euler
Active member
Why is it that they are only about 55% open, then?
