Hybrid cars in ski area

x10003q · May 23, 2014

deadheadskier said:
Interesting

Regular 87 octane around the NH Seacoast right now is $3.50 - $3.65. Diesel is up around $4. My observation over the last few years is that diesel is always about 50 cents more per gallon than 87 octane unleaded throughout northern New England.

I wonder if it's a tax issue as to why diesel can be found in Jersey for nearly the same price as regular gas.

I am not sure why I am finding diesel at that price. The taxes in NJ on fuel have been the same since the early 1990s. Maybe there is less demand due to many homeowners switching from oil to natural gas for heat in out area?

If you drive 25k miles a year you should consider a diesel for your next ride.

Harvey · May 23, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
People on the right looks at Hybrids and think they're hurting the economy.

I admit I didn't read the whole thread. What is the argument for hybrids hurting the economy?

BenedictGomez · May 23, 2014

deadheadskier said:
I wonder if it's a tax issue as to why diesel can be found in Jersey for nearly the same price as regular gas.

The tax on diesel is currently only 2¢ higher in New Hampshire than it is in New Jersey, so it cant be that.

That said, the price of gas is going up in July in New Hampshire due to a scheduled 4.2¢ tax increase. Have fun with that.

Harvey said:
What is the argument for hybrids hurting the economy?

There are several reasons having mostly to do with tax subsidies. Federal subsidies which essentially go straight to the National Debt due to lost tax revenue for future payments. Then you have state subsidies on top of that even (REMARKABLY) in states like California which are outprojecting bankruptcy.

Look at it this way. You have an unpopular hybrid selling for $30,000. But after the $7,500 Federal tax subsidy it's $22,500. That's an eye-popping 25% off!!!! :-o

Now imagine you bought that same car in Illinois (another state in financial hell projecting insolvency). You get a $4,000 tax subsidy on top of that, so now your $30,000 car is $18,500 or 39% off!- 100% of which is paid for by the government.

There are other reasons too, including "investments" (i.e. tax subsides) to the manufacturers etc..., but we wont go into those.

Domeskier · May 23, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
There are several reasons having mostly to do with tax subsidies. Federal subsidies which essentially go straight to the National Debt due to lost tax revenue for future payments. Then you have state subsidies on top of that even (REMARKABLY) in states like California which are outprojecting bankruptcy.

I thought the party line was that tax breaks are great for the economy...

deadheadskier · May 23, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
That said, the price of gas is going up in July in New Hampshire due to a scheduled 4.2¢ tax increase. Have fun with that.

Doesn't bother me all that much for two reasons.

1. There hasn't been an increase since 1991

2. Gas varies as much as 15 cents or more depending on what station you go to. I paid $3.49 yesterday. This morning I drove by a place the next town over charging $3.63.

4 cents isn't that big of a deal.

bigbog · May 23, 2014

Would rather see some hydrogen demos, but I think they're still in testing.

BenedictGomez · May 23, 2014

Domeskier said:
I thought the party line was that tax breaks are great for the economy...

Two things:

1) You need to learn the financial difference between a tax break and a subsidy.
2) Not all tax breaks are "great for the economy". Almost all subsidies are bad for the economy.

deadheadskier said:
4 cents isn't that big of a deal.

For deadheadskier personally? That I buy.
For the economy of New Hampshire? It's a negative.

And per that other thread that delved into prognosticating the future of New Hampshire, you can expect the next tax increase on gas in New Hampshire to come a helluva lot sooner than 23 years from now.

deadheadskier · May 23, 2014

maybe, maybe not

I don't have the same economic crystal ball of facts like you do

BenedictGomez · May 23, 2014

deadheadskier said:
I don't have the same economic crystal ball of facts like you do

I wish I had one of those. Sounds way sexier than GDP forecasts, Case-Chiller indexes, and BLS & Census data.

Domeskier · May 23, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
Two things:

1) You need to learn the financial difference between a tax break and a subsidy.
2) Not all tax breaks are "great for the economy". Almost all subsidies are bad for the economy.

You need to look into getting refund from whomever tried to teach you finance. There is absolutely no economic difference between reducing the tax rate on some activity and subsidizing it by providing a deduction for it. They have the exact same effect on government revenue and the exact same effect on your pocket book.

DoublePlanker · May 23, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
I'm always amazed at how many Prius owners claim to beat (or slaughter in some cases in this thread) Toyota's posted Prius gas mileage attained on their test track under optimal conditions. That's amazing. Especially since it's been debunked by more than a few reputable vehicle publications.

Just look up hypermiling. Those techniques make it possible to exceed EPA ratings for almost any car. Even just adopting a couple of ideas from that can improve fuel economy drastically.

steamboat1 · May 23, 2014

Chrysler CEO admits they lose $14,000 on every electric car sold.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/21/chrsyelr-ceo-evs-idUSL1N0O71MS20140521

AdironRider · May 23, 2014

DoublePlanker said:
Just look up hypermiling. Those techniques make it possible to exceed EPA ratings for almost any car. Even just adopting a couple of ideas from that can improve fuel economy drastically.

Dude, hypermiling is a joke. Its a totally great idea to turn the car completely off on the highway doing 80 to save a couple tenths of a gallon....But Prius drivers tend to think its the right way to drive.

Appears Double Planker is that guy doing 60 in the fast lane.

BenedictGomez · May 23, 2014

Domeskier said:
You need to look into getting refund from whomever tried to teach you finance. There is absolutely no economic difference between reducing the tax rate on some activity and subsidizing it by providing a deduction for it. They have the exact same effect on government revenue and the exact same effect on your pocket book.

Next time either say:

A) Gotcha, I didn't realize there's a substantial conceptual difference between a "subsidy" and a "tax break".

or:

B) I intentionally misused the term "tax break", because I was trying to be clever (since that's pretty much what I try do on this site)

Instead of attempting to redefine the context of what you said in the first post, which was incorrect, with your second post.

My money is on answer 'B'.

Domeskier · May 23, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
Next time either say:

A) Gotcha, I didn't realize there's a substantial conceptual difference between a "subsidy" and a "tax break".

or:

B) I intentionally misused the term "tax break", because I was trying to be clever (since that's pretty much what I try do on this site)

Instead of attempting to redefine the context of what you said in the first post, which was incorrect, with your second post.

My money is on answer 'B'.

Meh. Distinguishing tax breaks from tax subsidiaries may be politically expedient, but they're one and the same thing from the point of view of Treasury and any rational agent.

ALLSKIING · May 23, 2014

AdironRider said:
Dude, hypermiling is a joke. Its a totally great idea to turn the car completely off on the highway doing 80 to save a couple tenths of a gallon....But Prius drivers tend to think its the right way to drive.

Appears Double Planker is that guy doing 60 in the fast lane.

All you have to do to shut down the engine in a Prius is let off the gas....Not to hard.

Harvey · May 24, 2014

I usually hypermile (sorta) one tank when my wife gets a new econocar just to see what I'll get. Her Civic (manual) I got 44.5 out of it on highway drive. I could push that car and get close to 40 so it really wasn't worth it to spend all day driving carefully to save 4 bucks.

Not sure what the EPA ratings are on a Prius. My wife doesn't drive carefully (for mileage) but she's not putting the hammer down much either. Worst mileage is winter - maybe 45. Summer more like 55.

BTW IMO true hypermiling is dangerous.

AdironRider · May 24, 2014

ALLSKIING said:
All you have to do to shut down the engine in a Prius is let off the gas....Not to hard.

If you know what hypermiling is I think you get my point.

fbrissette · May 24, 2014

AdironRider said:
If you know what hypermiling is I think you get my point.

Is hypermiling the technique by which your commute takes 15 minutes longer and where you piss off dozens of drivers to save 1.50$ ?

AdironRider · May 24, 2014

fbrissette said:
Is hypermiling the technique by which your commute takes 15 minutes longer and where you piss off dozens of drivers to save 1.50$ ?

Thats the least of it. The so called "advanced techniques" go over tailgating trucks, turning the ignition completely off while cruising on the highway until you need gas again, and other retarded me first activities.

Hybrid cars in ski area

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