Summer Arctic Ice

jack97 · May 20, 2014

twinplanx said:
I don't get why skiers would argue against climate change. You don't actually believe man has NOT adversely affected the planet, do you? Why not, er on the side of caution? Good planets are hard to find.

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i think most are confuse about this issue because of there own self interest or arrogance..... my op was about climate change or the potential cold period that would benefit both skiers and riders. However, my real argument is the AGW proponents have distorted science from its true core and made this into an agenda driven mockery. As I stated, any scientist that thinks correlation implies causality is a third rate scientist or got a degree from a soft science program.

All the money spent on this back and forth could have been spent on good research. Even yet, the demonizing co2 thru the epa will stifle our economy.

btw, here's another piece of reconstruction, authors reconstructed sea level rise from 1800s till present, graph shows a steady line. Its thru a paywall so you have to read the abstract. If co2 influence was present, that line would have increased more so for the past thirty years, but it has not. You will never see this in the IPCC since it is not in their best interest to endorse this.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921818113002750

dlague · May 20, 2014

twinplanx said:
I don't get why skiers would argue against climate change. You don't actually believe man has NOT adversely affected the planet, do you? Why not, er on the side of caution? Good planets are hard to find.

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Unfortunately there are so many contradicting articles and political stances then there is the money grab from both sides of the issue that it makes people unsure. When you have Al Gore telling people to change yet he has 5 Suburbans, a huge house and is flying everywhere - how can you trust that. Musicians backing global warming arguments yet hold concerts that have people driving all over, use products that are petroleum based and they too live lavishly with no citing back. I just don't get it!

i typed with my i thumbs using AlpineZone

steamboat1 · May 20, 2014

Rowsdower · May 21, 2014

jack97 said:
umm... that rate of change happens at various points in the temp plots before the sixties/seventies. and yes there have been pauses before that as well.

You meant to say the rate of change is variable, you just couldn't find the words.

It's true, that rate is variable, but the current rate of change is dependent on variables being impacted by human activity.

jack97 · May 21, 2014

Rowsdower said:
It's true, that rate is variable, but the current rate of change is dependent on variables being impacted by human activity.

Temp have stayed flat for 17 to 18 years if you did a backward regression (meaning start the observations now and go back in years. Trend is same for most reading; for surface temps and the two satellite temps.

IMO satellite temps is most telling since the troposphere hotspot is non existence. BTW, that would have convince all scientist the greenhouse gas theory was valid, a hotspot at this point but it's still not there.

jack97 · May 21, 2014

steamboat1 said:
View attachment 12661

wtf? this means the medieval period used fossil fuel as well?

jack97 · May 21, 2014

another wtf...... an AGW skeptic rapper from europe. That's like a scene from a Tarantino film.

Puck it · May 21, 2014

Aren't we suppose be to underwater all ready per Al Gore?

Cannonball · May 21, 2014

Puck it said:
Aren't we suppose be to underwater all ready per Al Gore?

Who knows. Al Gore isn't a scientist and I don't think I've heard anything about him since ~2006, except that GW deniers like to bring his name up all the time and use him as a primary source of info about climate science.

MadMadWorld · May 21, 2014

Cannonball said:
Who knows. Al Gore isn't a scientist and I don't think I've heard anything about him since ~2006, except that GW deniers like to bring his name up all the time and use him as a primary source of info about climate science.

He's building the Internet 2.0

fbrissette · May 21, 2014

steamboat1 said:
View attachment 12661

Wow ! I had never seen that one. This is a terribly misleading graph. This is NOT a graph about global temperatures but about idealized trends. This is a very creative use of a time-varying collapsing/expanding vertical scale and absolute BS.

Big surprise, Cliff Harris is not a climatologist and appears to be a bible wacko.

Puck it · May 21, 2014

Cannonball said:
Who knows. Al Gore isn't a scientist and I don't think I've heard anything about him since ~2006, except that GW deniers like to bring his name up all the time and use him as a primary source of info about climate science.

Comic relief

dlague · May 21, 2014

Well this thread has led me to look into historical warming and cooling trends and based on prehistoric data the last ice age ended about 10,000 years ago and the current ice caps are still from that time. Based on historical patterns we will go into another ice age in about 1500 years.

The biggest factor for generating CO2 - volcanoes.

Volcanic eruptions may have contributed to the inception and/or the end of ice age periods. At times during the paleoclimate, carbon dioxide levels were two or three times greater than today. Volcanoes and movements in continental plates contributed to high amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere.

Not sure how we will stop that! Yes we generate lots of co2 and methane however, there are many other natural events that can generate much much more than humans can.

On another note, I was also reading about Solar and orbital impacts on climate. We currently are in the middle of a solar cycle where higher levels of solar radiation are being recorded - this alone has an impact on the ozone layer and increasing temperatures a few degrees.

The increase of incident solar UV during solar maximum conditions leads to increased generation of stratospheric ozone in the mid-to-upper stratosphere, which ultimately results in greater ozone in the tropical lower stratosphere. This helps warm that region via both short- and long-wave absorption. In response to this more stable vertical profile for tropical tropospheric processes, tropical convection preferentially shifts off the equator, favoring monsoonal effects during Northern Hemisphere summer and on the annual average.

The point here is that blaming everything on the human population is too simple and the issue at hand with global warming or cooling for that matter is seriously out of our control and just fuels the debate as fodder. Can we be better - yes! Will we be better - who really knows. For all of the gains we have made India and China have surpassed three fold!

Needed to throw a chart in!

Cannonball · May 21, 2014

dlague said:
The point here is that blaming everything on the human population is too simple

Absolutely!! And if you ever find someone who does that, smack them upside the head.

But just because you can't prevent lightning from striking doesn't mean you should stick your finger in the socket. We need to be cognizant of ALL the things going on, and address the things we can influence.

Puck it · May 21, 2014

Cannonball said:
Absolutely!! And if you ever find someone who does that, smack them upside the head.

But just because you can't prevent lightning from striking doesn't mean you should stick your finger in the socket. We need to be cognizant of ALL the things going on, and address the things we can influence.

Bingo, I have always said that we should not be dumping crap into the enivronment but let's not destroy people's lively hood too. We need to continue modelling and see what the it tells us. Plotting of data can be very misleading with even just changing scales. We got tricked by some at work at a couple of weeks ago by plotting the vertical scale on the natural log. We all said that the data looked good until someone notice the y scale. Just an example.

Cannonball · May 21, 2014

Puck it said:
Bingo, I have always said that we should be dumping crap into the enivronment but let's not destroy people's lively hood too. We need to continue modelling and see what the it tells us. Plotting of data can be very misleading with even just changing scales. We got tricked by some at work at a couple of weeks ago by plotting the vertical scale on the natural log. We all said that the data looked good until someone notice the y scale. Just an example.

Might need Scotty to help translate this. I presume you mean we should not be dumping crap into the environment?

Puck it · May 21, 2014

Cannonball said:
Might need Scotty to help translate this. I presume you mean we should not be dumping crap into the environment?

Oops. I was eating lunch and typing. Fingers do not work as fast as brain.

dlague · May 21, 2014

Cannonball said:
Might need Scotty to help translate this. I presume you mean we should not be dumping crap into the environment?

Good catch - I read right over than and filled in the blank.

Puck it · May 21, 2014

dlague said:
Good catch - I read right over than and filled in the blank.

Not only is he my proofreader, he is my mountain sherpa.

dlague · May 21, 2014

Puck it said:
Not only is he my proofreader, he is my mountain sherpa.

Well both of you as well as others might be for me since I just got the season pass!

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