What the heck is going on at Magic?

The Powder article states: "Both Barker and sources with JSL Magic say the area broke even the past two seasons. "

How could the area have broken even if the ownership group had to "kick in money" to pay delinquent taxes last month?

Also wouldn't breaking even over the past two years have had something to do with the $600,000+ in club money -- which was essentially a one time donation and not a sustainable revenue stream?

There's also some pretty nasty (and specific) accusations in the comments on the article.

timm said:

The Powder article states: "Both Barker and sources with JSL Magic say the area broke even the past two seasons. "

How could the area have broken even if the ownership group had to "kick in money" to pay delinquent taxes last month?

Also wouldn't breaking even over the past two years have had something to do with the $600,000+ in club money -- which was essentially a one time donation and not a sustainable revenue stream?

There's also some pretty nasty (and specific) accusations in the comments on the article.

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Good points.

As to the comments, IIRC SnowJournal has banned Magic threads because of the animosity. I just don't understand it personally.

Tin said:

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Scary?

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My 7 year old was begging to ski red line, my little guy, not so much...! Yes, the green chair would be good for him.


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MadMadWorld said:

The problem is really getting to the beginner terrain on the lower mountain. Even that could use some grading.

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Exactly. The lower mt has solid beginner potential.


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Too bad the Little Chair was removed. The old Hocus Pocus area was great for beginners. That's where I learned how to snowboard.

deadheadskier said:

Too bad the Little Chair was removed. The old Hocus Pocus area was great for beginners. That's where I learned how to snowboard.

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This....the trails are already cut and would likely just need some trimming. Of course getting a short, used, non-surface lift would be key.
I think this would be a smarter idea than putting chairs on Green line.

Always thought that if they were going to break back into big time status that they would have to put a lift back up in the beginner area. But does Magic really need to go for that? They seemed to have carved out a good niche for themselves with what they offer and have dedicated fans. Question is can they expand that niche to where it is profitable. I certainly will do my part by visiting at least once every season.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

deadheadskier said:

Too bad the Little Chair was removed. The old Hocus Pocus area was great for beginners. That's where I learned how to snowboard.

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Did you get certified?

4aprice said:

But does Magic really need to go for that? They seemed to have carved out a good niche for themselves with what they offer and have dedicated fans. Question is can they expand that niche to where it is profitable.
Lake Hopatcong, NJ

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Their dedicated fans are helping them barely break even so they need to do something get to bring in more. Green Line would really help in getting more families there to just see the place and be beneficial during shallow snow times. Magic has something about it where if you visit once you will be back. Magic will never takes big numbers from Stratton or Bromely but getting some of them to stop in for a day on their week long vacation would make a big difference financially. Advertising it as southern VT's "classic New England area" would draw some curiosity. You don't need polish and HSQs to have a great time.

RustyGroomer said:

Did you get certified?

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Yup. Pretty funny looking back that anyone on skis could buy a ticket and go right to the summit, but snowboarders needed certification to ride the summit lifts. Skiers were so afraid of snowboarders back then.

My buddy Jay probably certified you. He was the first boarder allowed to do so. Hilarious. They hated those new fangled snowboard thingamijigs back then. You guys were banned from the West side too. Funny stuff....

I agree that Green Line and the old Hocus Pocus area need lifts to get Magic fully on the map. But FIRST you need more snowmaking. The pipe repairs have (reportedly) been done on enough of the mountain. They need to be able to make more on this terrain. Infrastructure-wise I believe they need more pump capacity for the upper mountain, and ideally some newer, more efficient portable tower guns. But the core item is more budget to make snow. There is a limited audience for Magic with only one or two runs down the mountain, and you can't survive by waiting on natural snow and the powder hounds (this has been the reality the last 2 years which, optimistically, were maybe break even). In my opinion you need the following open on man made snow to be an alternative to other areas on a crowded weekend/holiday: Magic Carpet TTB, Medium, Trick, Wand, Show Off, Hocus Pocus, Wizard TTB, and Talisman. That is about double what they made snow on last winter. But the obvious questions are 1) can they actually make that much snow given current infrastructure 2) can they pay for that much snow and ) assuming 1&2 are manageable, will they get the return via skier visits? IMHO, the problem is that to get #3 may require a couple of years of consistently making that much snow (oh, and having 2 reliable lifts running) to build the reputation of being an alternative to the other areas. And that takes some cash, not too mention the guts to go for it. I can't reconcile the above with Tom's cost cutting objective.

deadheadskier said:

Yup. Pretty funny looking back that anyone on skis could buy a ticket and go right to the summit, but snowboarders needed certification to ride the summit lifts. Skiers were so afraid of snowboarders back then.

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EVERYBODY should get certified.

For infrastructure, pumping isn't a real problem. Their pumps total 810 HP [Financial Statements], which a 1780 ft head (yielding 150 psi at the summit) would pump approximately 1080 gpm. Making snow on only Trick -> Showoff and Talisman means that you have 31 gpm/Acre, or 50% better than Bromley or Stratton (20.6 and 20.9 respectively). From what I've read, the real problem is compressors, which are too small and inefficient. Increasing compressor capacity means they can open quicker by better utilizing their pumping capacity. At 28ºF wetbulb, a Ratnik has a CFM/GPM ratio of 21.1, and it doesn't get below 10 until 19ºF wetbulb.

Back c. 2009 they would spend $8K for diesel for 2-days of running the compressor(s). That sounds like about 3200 cfm with $2.50/gal diesel. Using those figures, I estimate it would take $55k between diesel, pumping, and labor, to make 18" of snow Trick -> Wand -> Showoff. During the summer of 2009, five used compressors totaling 21,000 cfm from a CA ski area that went to fan guns were listed on sale. The following summer, two additional used 2000 cfm electric compressors from Quebec were on sale from the same site. Savings of running two of those 2000 cfm compressors off of electricity instead of diesel at the 2009 average VT commercial rate of 14.7¢/kwH means that both that route and Wizard -> Talisman could be made for less, at around $43k. A simple $120k investment would mean they could more double their snowmaking production for a given budget. This has a multiplying effect as more guaranteed terrain open would sell more passes, sell more day tickets, and conditions would improve as skiers would be spread out more.

That's assuming the Talisman pipes worked, which didn't. Jim admitted that Efficiency Vermont came through and identified that they lost 432 cfm from holes in their air line. Considering that he quoted repairs at around $1/foot, a $15k investment would yield a 13.5% improvement in efficiency, and a return on investment of just over a year.

Why couldn't Jim, if he couldn't afford it as a rich lawyer, get another partner involved in Magic to help pay for either of those upgrades?

Why was Green Line never finished? That would mean beginners could avoid Trick, and take a shorter route down. And Magic could open earlier as it would require less snow.

With all due respect, Jim seems to have helped a lot but he didn't try hard enough, and pre-2006 management were moronic for never fixing the pipes in the first place.

How many runs that had working snowmaking at one time still are not operational and what are they? I remember a list on snow journal a few years back when the fundraising started but can't find it.

Bump. In another thread, I asked how things are going and this was the response:

RustyGroomer said:

Certainly can't comment on the guys @ Powder's reasoning. What's going on? Getting the hill ready for snow. Volunteer day this Saturday. Tom Barker is the man in charge. He has been there for many years & is taking a more active day to day role. Time will tell if he stays in that role long term. "Magic Faithful Club" has zero to do with any operations.

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Too bad to hear that the Co-op investors are pretty much SOL. I read that they were offered their money back and many said no. It seems at least quite odd that the owners of the property got essentially free money for improvements.

Investors? I won't sit here & say things went as planned but I don't know anyone who invested anything. Many donated,....myself included.

RustyGroomer said:

Investors? I won't sit here & say things went as planned but I don't know anyone who invested anything. Many donated,....myself included.

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But I still think it seems odd for folks to "donate" to a private company like this with no expectation of anything in return. I thought that folks bought "shares" with the intent of having some control over the area? Is that no longer the case?

Like I said. This whole thing was far from perfect. Our return hopefully comes with the ability to ski & keep Magic open for years to come.

And this might be of interest for Magic Fans:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAGIC-MOUNT...23899622?pt=Art_Paintings&hash=item46284dd2e6