What the heck is going on at Magic?

slatham said:

Billski, there have been significant times in years past (not last year though) where the mountain did not open due to reliance on Red and Red went down. And 2 years ago when Red went down disaster was averted only because Black was finally back on line. While we are hopefully past that situation with Red's overhaul, there is a contingent of people (my family included) who are very leery of heading over to Magic with only one lift running (a couple of them spent a cold 45 minutes stranded on Red during an epic Christmas dump several years ago and then had to bail to Bromley).

People also stayed away last year during Presidents weekend due to the expected crowds due to the races. I know it wasn't a disaster but the lines were pretty long. With both lifts running there would be no lines and everyone who was thinking of heading to Magic would have gone.

Two reliable lifts are needed to get to the next level.

Click to expand...

drjeff said:

This coming season, just from the Southern VT Council alpine junior racing series, Magic is hosting races on January 17th and 30th, February 14 and March 20th, and that's just for the u10, U12 and u14 age groups, the u16/18 age group schedule hasn't been posted yet. Let alone the usual stops at Magic by the tele race crew, the freeride tour, etc. Having 2 reliabily working lifts, for at least portions of the day, is a needed thing, and one which I look forward to enjoying on the 3 days days my kids have scheduled at Magic this coming season!

Click to expand...

vonski said:

Also, having Black open gives you a triple, So if looking to attract families, then the parent with two kids can take the Black and not have to let one kid ride alone. Especially, if one of the kids is just younger. Sure both kids can ride together but again if they are younger they can be with their parent together!

Click to expand...

We skied there two seasons ago with just the Black chair on President's Day and the line was ridiculous. Last year we got there and Black was not operating and Red was running and we went president's day again (RSNE) and of course races were being held too, The lines were better organized but it was a long wait we bailed after a few runs and then went back out around 3. They really need to have both chairs running - I would love to see that. Have not yet.

I never thought I'd say this but I am stoked to see this groomer video!

Magic said:

Great idea! I saw plenty of "comp tickets" on jackets this year but unfortunately not for the same reasons. We brought a family up with us 2 years ago and requested a discount rate from the old owner or whatever he was (JS) for our 1st time friends (we are "shareholders" and spend plenty !) . Well, the answer was no, so this family of four paid full price for tubing, rentals, etc. for a mountain that was half open, and our friends did not return to ski there. A few bucks off would have made a great impression and a return to the mountain.

Click to expand...

Great. Go try that shit anywhere. Your friends will have to take up figure skating. Hi OKEMO we have passes and spend thousands here, please cut the prices for our friends. Try that at the grocery store. We buy food here every week, we are ENTITLED to a discount. Screw your friends. Everyone pays full price.

You have to charge your friends, your enemies dont do business with you

Edit: the marketing has appeared to be focused on finding groups to discount tickets to. From CT? Discount. From NH? Discount? Anyone can give shit away. It's easy. Harder to sell and attract new business.

MMP, I generally agree with your sentiment. But Magic isn't just "anywhere" and good will is very valuable, especially for a first time family. That said, its a slippery slope - where do you draw the line, and how do you know they are really first timers? But my gut would be that since the host family had donated $3k toward Magic ("shareholders") and the mountain was 1/2 open, I would have given them a break. But in this capacity I am an armchair owner. When I own a ski area we'll see how I feel about discounts!

MMP said:

Great. Go try that shit anywhere. Your friends will have to take up figure skating. Hi OKEMO we have passes and spend thousands here, please cut the prices for our friends. Try that at the grocery store. We buy food here every week, we are ENTITLED to a discount. Screw your friends. Everyone pays full price.

You have to charge your friends, your enemies dont do business with you

Edit: the marketing has appeared to be focused on finding groups to discount tickets to. From CT? Discount. From NH? Discount? Anyone can give shit away. It's easy. Harder to sell and attract new business.

Click to expand...

Attitudes like this is why businesses fail. Check out strattons snow
guarantee policy....

MMP said:

Great. Go try that shit anywhere. Your friends will have to take up figure skating. Hi OKEMO we have passes and spend thousands here, please cut the prices for our friends. Try that at the grocery store. We buy food here every week, we are ENTITLED to a discount. Screw your friends. Everyone pays full price.

You have to charge your friends, your enemies dont do business with you

Edit: the marketing has appeared to be focused on finding groups to discount tickets to. From CT? Discount. From NH? Discount? Anyone can give shit away. It's easy. Harder to sell and attract new business.

Click to expand...

Attitudes like this is why businesses fail. Check out strattons guarantee policy....

Magic said:

Attitudes like this is why businesses fail. Check out strattons guarantee policy....

Click to expand...

That is definitely not why they fail haha... I will be the first to say that while the shareholders program intended and did a lot of good, there were a ton of people who took the meaning of their $3k way waaaaaaaay too far. We had to stop one guy from driving his jeep straight up showoff once- His response? "Oh don't worry, It's cool I'm a shareholder". Uh, no. It's not cool. It's not cool at all. I can't even begin to tell you how many people thought that their $3k gave them free reign across all aspects of the business. It was insane- some of the ugliest behaviors ever seen on the hill came as a result of the entitlement of the shareholder group members, including the firing of some good employees who "didn't respect the shareholders" (that means give them special treatment). If it didn't possibly save the mountain for a year I would have much worse things to say about it too btw. As someone who has literally hundreds if not thousands of hours of my time invested in projects across the hill by this point and STILL don't think they owe me shit, it blew my mind to see that dynamic play out. I actually resigned from leading volly groups for a year because I was so disgusted.


Everybody wants a say. I get that. Consideration of loyalty and the extension of goodwill also goes a long way but people need to be realistic. If they discounted everybody who knows someone, they'd be sunk in a week because everybody there knows someone. THAT is how businesses fail. Especially ones running the ragged edge as it is.


FWIW Magic I'm not trying to paint you as some kind of entitled type at all and I personally thank you for your investment/donation whatever it ended up being- it's definitely worth asking for a discount, but when the answer is no it isn't a sign the place is doing something wrong. It's a sign that they are trying to run a profitable business which as an investor you should understand a little better IMO. Just my .02 though, and please don't take offense to my observation- I mean to make no correlation to you personally when referring to the poor behaviors of some others.


P.S.- Stratton sucks.

And some stoke to lighten the mood :-D

We went to okemo with passes bought in bulk through the CT Ski Council. Showed up and were denied passes because my friend didn't have the business card like membership card for the CSC. We offered to email, fax, etc etc and they had none of it. We aren't kids, and this was a day that magics lift was iced and we had a guest. That was a tiny accommodation that they were unable to provide. Being angry because someone that you don't know didn't give you something is childish and smacks of entitlement. No one is ever under any obligation to do anyone else a favor. It's a gift. Not an obligation.

Thanks Do Work, I need that. Given that you were filming Matt, I bet we've skied together (though I am a relative newbie compared to Matt and his crew). I look forward to skiing in those woods again soon. Hopefully we can meet up.

slatham said:

Thanks Do Work, I need that. Given that you were filming Matt, I bet we've skied together (though I am a relative newbie compared to Matt and his crew). I look forward to skiing in those woods again soon. Hopefully we can meet up.

Click to expand...

Matt? I can't stand that guy. He's a HUGE gaper and an insufferable bastard to boot. ;-)


I'd love to ski and have a beer (or five) with you guys!

MMP said:

We went to okemo with passes bought in bulk through the CT Ski Council. Showed up and were denied passes because my friend didn't have the business card like membership card for the CSC.

Click to expand...

It's common practice at most areas not to honor ski club bulk tickets without a valid ski club membership card. There's good reason for this policy.

steamboat1 said:

It's common practice at most areas not to honor ski club bulk tickets without a valid ski club membership card. There's good reason for this policy.

Click to expand...

It's also common practice at every business ever not to honor discounts for friends of shareholders. There's good reason for this policy.

steamboat1 said:

It's common practice at most areas not to honor ski club bulk tickets without a valid ski club membership card. There's good reason for this policy.

Click to expand...

of course there is. asking for a discount, and explaining that the card is at your ski house 20 miles away, at 11:30 am after trying to wait out an ice delay, and offering to pay and be refunded when the card was sent (that, or the next day) and being told no chance, are not equivalents.

We are 50 year old guys, and despite being a dickhead here, consider myself fairly respectable in public (magic does not count as "public"). There is a time to provide exceptional service and earn goodwill. I have no right to expect they (Okemo) will break the rules just for me. I am not entitled to that courtesy, but asking for a discount from a guy that is on his ass financially, and any "shareholder" would know that, is not something I would do nor be upset about if denied. Asking for an accommodation for a few hours and leaving the full fee there should we not send the card is something that a reasonable business would do. Is there massive fraud with the bult tickets?

Now granted, I will NEVER buy a lift ticket there again, because I have a red ass over the way they treated us, AND the skiing and massive crowds suck (I'd rather snowshoe than ski that place). Stratton is better, and closer. That's right Do Work! Stratton!


edit: I also found JS very reasonable when buying lots of season passes for family members. Very.

Do Work said:

It's also common practice at every business ever not to honor discounts for friends of shareholders. There's good reason for this policy.

Click to expand...

Touche lol.

MMP said:

Is there massive fraud with the bult tickets?

Click to expand...

There was until ski areas started instituting this policy. You could even buy them on e bay at one time for a few dollars over cost.

steamboat1 said:

There was until ski areas started instituting this policy. You could even buy them on e bay at one time for a few dollars over cost.

Click to expand...

So those tickets got returned at the end of the year for a refund and we won't be back because of what we considered poor customer service, that cost us a couple of hours. They wanted to sell us 3 $80 lift tickets for essentially a half day.

Someone not ever skiing magic ever again because they didn't get special pricing is biting off their nose to spite their face. No one I've told this story to thinks okemo was particularly smart for a hospitality business. My wife made us rent one of those godawful condos at Jackson gore a few years ago. Ugh. The worst. So I guess maybe they left some money on the table with us.

They have nice flags. I'll give them that.

MMP said:

So those tickets got returned at the end of the year for a refund

Click to expand...

That's not how bulk ski club tickets work. There is no refund at the end of the year if not used. You can purchase another bulk ticket for the following season for a small handling fee plus any price increase but there is no refund. In fact most areas will only take a small percentage for return & upgrade, typically 10%-20%. So you could get burned by your unused ticket not being eligible to roll over because of to many returns. Believe me I know because I got burned once.

steamboat1 said:

That's not how bulk ski club tickets work. There is no refund at the end of the year if not used. You can purchase another bulk ticket for the following season for a small handling fee plus any price increase but there is no refund. In fact most areas will only take a small percentage for return & upgrade, typically 10%-20%. So you could get burned by your unused ticket not being eligible to roll over because of to many returns. Believe me I know because I got burned once.

Click to expand...

Not the first time you've been wrong, won't be the last.

MMP said:

Not the first time you've been wrong, won't be the last.

Click to expand...

You don't have to believe me. Here's the bulk ski lift ticket return policy from the CSC website. Pretty much what I said heh!

RETURN POLICY



Stratton
and
Sugarbush
will
only
accept
10%
of
unused
vouchers,
Magic,
Killington
and
Pico
will
only
accept
15%
of
unused
vouchers,
and
Bromley,
Okemo
and
Mt.
Sunapee
will
only
accept
20%
of
unused
vouchers
at
the
end
of
the
ski
season
for
credit
towards
the
next
season’s
purchase

Sorry for the way it reads but that's how a copy & paste from a PDF came out.