steamboat1
New member
By the way 94% of the TARP money spent was recoverd. GM is far & away the biggest loss.
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Jay Peak bombshell
- Thread starter VTKilarney
- Start date
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Belt tightening has begun. They are now handing out towels in the water park as generously as the Soviets allocated toilet paper. You used to be able to take freely from a stack of towels. No you get one extremely small towel per person.
Cabana rental rates have gone way up as well. 100% increase since opening if memory serves me correctly.
The jumbo television now shows advertisements sold by Jay Peak.
My prediction is that the resort is going to start nickel and diming wherever and whenever possible. Somebody has to make those balloon payments.
Cabana rental rates have gone way up as well. 100% increase since opening if memory serves me correctly.
The jumbo television now shows advertisements sold by Jay Peak.
My prediction is that the resort is going to start nickel and diming wherever and whenever possible. Somebody has to make those balloon payments.
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VTKilarney
Well-known member
There is an article in Thursday's Caledonian Record about the Renaissance Block in Newport. Apparently the project is delayed due to difficulty finding investors. The town is going to take up the matter. One of the concerns is that if it is not torn down, as it was supposed to have been this fall, the building needs to be heated and have operational sprinklers. Stenger was not available for comment. The article did say that ground breaking is supposed to happen for AnC Bio this fall. Tick tock...
No surprise. They've run into issues getting money for a number of reasons.
The birdcage.
Haven't been out in these parts for a bit; good to see the boo birds still chirp.
Silly facts to folllow;
Towelgate. There has been no change to the process of handing out park towels. It may be that you were at the park on a day when an overzealous employee, if only there were more of them, began a personal rationing campaign. Suffice to say this isn't emblematic of a belt-tightening effort. If you see it again, pls let me know directly at swright@jaypeakresort.com if you're so inclined, thanks.
We've always shown ads on the Jumbo. The technology on the machine is a pia and, in the past, has worked intermittently. Even if this was a new effort, not sure it signifies anything more than being a good marketer.
Cabanagate. Since opening, the rates for a full day rental has been $150 weekend and $100 midweek. Last year we knocked the prices down by offering a 4 hour block option at $85/$60.
Carry on.
Haven't been out in these parts for a bit; good to see the boo birds still chirp.
Silly facts to folllow;
Towelgate. There has been no change to the process of handing out park towels. It may be that you were at the park on a day when an overzealous employee, if only there were more of them, began a personal rationing campaign. Suffice to say this isn't emblematic of a belt-tightening effort. If you see it again, pls let me know directly at swright@jaypeakresort.com if you're so inclined, thanks.
We've always shown ads on the Jumbo. The technology on the machine is a pia and, in the past, has worked intermittently. Even if this was a new effort, not sure it signifies anything more than being a good marketer.
Cabanagate. Since opening, the rates for a full day rental has been $150 weekend and $100 midweek. Last year we knocked the prices down by offering a 4 hour block option at $85/$60.
Carry on.
fbrissette
Well-known member
Ah ah ! But you've conveniently left out the fact that you put less air in the inflatable tubes to squeeze every last penny out of the compressor. Airgate !
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
That did seem like quite a bit of a stretch in terms of a way to save money.
My personal, "Jay Peak canary-in-the-coalmine" metric to gauge potential financial problems will be if the food quality in Alice's Kitchen begins to suffer. After sobbing first of course.
Full disclosure
In the interest of it, we've done a particularly shitty job being consistent in there, AT, the last three years (some meals great, some average, more than a few downright bad), and we need to do a much better job, starting with spending more $ on leadership, going forward.
In the interest of it, we've done a particularly shitty job being consistent in there, AT, the last three years (some meals great, some average, more than a few downright bad), and we need to do a much better job, starting with spending more $ on leadership, going forward.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
I could have sworn that the first year the park was open we paid less for a cabana - but I have no reason to doubt what you have said.
As far as the towels are concerned, every single time we went earlier this year (multiple times) towels were left out for the taking. Many towels. On our last two visits they were handed out by the cashier, who gave one towel per person. (Two cashiers were in on it each time.)
I don't recall ever seeing local advertising on the television, either.
To be clear, I am not knocking these perceived changes. (Well... the towel one is annoying if it wasn't just bad luck.) If Jay Peak wants to enhance revenues, power to them. It's not as if the advertising bothered me. If it helps Jay then I am all for it.
As far as the towels are concerned, every single time we went earlier this year (multiple times) towels were left out for the taking. Many towels. On our last two visits they were handed out by the cashier, who gave one towel per person. (Two cashiers were in on it each time.)
I don't recall ever seeing local advertising on the television, either.
To be clear, I am not knocking these perceived changes. (Well... the towel one is annoying if it wasn't just bad luck.) If Jay Peak wants to enhance revenues, power to them. It's not as if the advertising bothered me. If it helps Jay then I am all for it.
Still going...the State and Jay are looking worse and worse:
http://vtdigger.org/2014/10/22/sens...il&utm_term=0_dc3c5486db-d17dad5162-405558657
Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone
http://vtdigger.org/2014/10/22/sens...il&utm_term=0_dc3c5486db-d17dad5162-405558657
Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone
VTKilarney
Well-known member
I had written a lot, but I just hit delete because it is this simple: This is a complete and utter train wreck as far as the future of EB-5 is concerned with Stenger/Quiros. Only a fool would hand them money now. They better have financing in place to complete the Burke hotel.
And I am reading this correctly? The "collateral" for the IOUs is a business entity with no actual assets? If true, they'd be better off owning snake oil futures!
Would anyone invest money with someone who claims it was a "communications error" to take nine months to tell investors that their equity interest has been wiped out?
How Brent Raymond still has a job is beyond me. As long as he does, nobody should park any money in a Vermont EB-5 program.
And I am reading this correctly? The "collateral" for the IOUs is a business entity with no actual assets? If true, they'd be better off owning snake oil futures!
Would anyone invest money with someone who claims it was a "communications error" to take nine months to tell investors that their equity interest has been wiped out?
How Brent Raymond still has a job is beyond me. As long as he does, nobody should park any money in a Vermont EB-5 program.
mbedle
Well-known member
If I'm not mistaken, isn't the hotel all ready funded? Can investors pull out at any time or is there a cutoff, at which point they are locked into it?
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Nobody really knows. In April, a couple of months before construction began, Stenger said that Burke was 25% funded. Whether he was referring to the hotel or the entire slate of projects is anyone's guess.
I've heard rumors that work is going to stop on the hotel once the outside walls are up, but I haven't put much stock in these rumors given the sources.
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VTKilarney
Well-known member
What's sad about this is that the facilities on the mountain itself have not benefited one bit from all of the EB-5 money. This would be okay if the EB-5 projects generated revenues that could be used to improve mountain infrastructure. But with things being such a mess, and balloon payments coming due, who knows if that will happen.
If Jay wants to keep those hotels full they are going to need to make some improvements to the mountain at some point - if for no other reason than to keep up with their competition.
And who knows what this does to the odds of the expansion of the ski area itself.
IMHO the best way out of this mess is to sell Jay and all of the associated businesses as a package. Arrange a deal that will immediately pay the investors something (even if it is not what they invested). If I was investor, I'd think VERY long and hard about getting something rather than nothing, so I think this could work. It would put all of this mess in the past and let the ski area move forward. The infrastructure is sufficient that a fairly major company may be tempted.
If Jay wants to keep those hotels full they are going to need to make some improvements to the mountain at some point - if for no other reason than to keep up with their competition.
And who knows what this does to the odds of the expansion of the ski area itself.
IMHO the best way out of this mess is to sell Jay and all of the associated businesses as a package. Arrange a deal that will immediately pay the investors something (even if it is not what they invested). If I was investor, I'd think VERY long and hard about getting something rather than nothing, so I think this could work. It would put all of this mess in the past and let the ski area move forward. The infrastructure is sufficient that a fairly major company may be tempted.
fbrissette
Well-known member
This will eventually happen if Jay Peak makes more money. And making more money is ultimately the reason behind all of this EB5 thing. To be fair: new tram cabins, skyhaus, new stateside chalet and improved snow making capabilities are benefits to skiers. I would trade all of this for the West Bowl in a second but that's another topic.
From what I've heard, winter reservations are at an all-time high.
Again from what I've heard, West Bowl is slowly (very slowly) moving forward.
Sell Jay ????? They could sell the tramhouse as condo units and pay back the investors. But then the jobs associated with the hotel would be gone (with the green cards presumably ?).
Seriously, the only way this was going to work with the hotel making money and creating jobs, was for the investors getting their money back very very slowly (as is the current deal) or not getting their money back at all. A 5-year interest free loan was never going to cut it and frankly (no matter how badly this was presented to investors) you had to be an idiot to think you would get all of your money back after 5 years.
machski
Well-known member
All this and now I see Peaks wants to get in on the EB-5 action at Mount Snow. They have big plans for all new Carinthia Base and Housing and in their Magazine/Brochure, they are holding up Jay as the poster child for success with the EB-5 program. Hmmm, VT may need to re-examine this statewide EB-5 thing to ensure it is sustainable.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
IMHO, Peak's plans are dead in the water thanks to Jay and the state.
noreasterbackcountry
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I read that article expecting something new but it was essentially an interview with the investors' attorney basically regurgitating the same old allegations and arguments that have been made before.
1. Investors sign contracts clearly stating they are investors and not creditors, and that they are limited partners whose interests can be changed at any time.
2. Hotel and other projects successfully completed.
3. Investors get their greencards.
4. Their unsecured limited partnership interests are converted to unsecured note holders and the investors aren't notified for five months of the change (that they had no ability or right to stop).
5. Investors claim that they were originally told this was a loan (despite the fact the rules of the program, their contract, and a simple google search of "EB-5" clearly lay out that it was not..) and also claim that Stenger told them they would get their money back right away. They also make unsupported allegations of fraud.
6. Investors are offered a chance to look at the finances but refuse because they don't want to sign a confidentiality agreement. (And it would possibly defeat their unsupported allegations of fraud- And its not what they wanted anyway)
7. Investors are offered a security guaranty on their converted note interests-- but demand a better security agreement (that would likely violate other security/loan agreements held by Jay on their equipment/facilities)
8. VT Digger presents one sided articles that parrot the investor's claims while relying on letters to the editor to get the other side of the story. They examine 400 pages of documents provided by Jay to the center--- and the most damning evidence of impropriety they can come up with is that the center treats Stenger with respect. In the process they get a bump in readership because naysayers who want the center and EB5 program to fail due to their own political or personal agendas are eager for stuff to repeat at dinner parties.
9. Investors become harder to obtain because of increased competition in the market (more EB-5 centers), slowdown in the world economy, and the stink raised by the investors trying to extort a better deal.
Same story, different day. If anything, the fact the investors balked at reviewing the financials because they didn't want to sign a confidentiality agreement (a standard business practice when examining financials) is telling as to their real motives.
1. Investors sign contracts clearly stating they are investors and not creditors, and that they are limited partners whose interests can be changed at any time.
2. Hotel and other projects successfully completed.
3. Investors get their greencards.
4. Their unsecured limited partnership interests are converted to unsecured note holders and the investors aren't notified for five months of the change (that they had no ability or right to stop).
5. Investors claim that they were originally told this was a loan (despite the fact the rules of the program, their contract, and a simple google search of "EB-5" clearly lay out that it was not..) and also claim that Stenger told them they would get their money back right away. They also make unsupported allegations of fraud.
6. Investors are offered a chance to look at the finances but refuse because they don't want to sign a confidentiality agreement. (And it would possibly defeat their unsupported allegations of fraud- And its not what they wanted anyway)
7. Investors are offered a security guaranty on their converted note interests-- but demand a better security agreement (that would likely violate other security/loan agreements held by Jay on their equipment/facilities)
8. VT Digger presents one sided articles that parrot the investor's claims while relying on letters to the editor to get the other side of the story. They examine 400 pages of documents provided by Jay to the center--- and the most damning evidence of impropriety they can come up with is that the center treats Stenger with respect. In the process they get a bump in readership because naysayers who want the center and EB5 program to fail due to their own political or personal agendas are eager for stuff to repeat at dinner parties.
9. Investors become harder to obtain because of increased competition in the market (more EB-5 centers), slowdown in the world economy, and the stink raised by the investors trying to extort a better deal.
Same story, different day. If anything, the fact the investors balked at reviewing the financials because they didn't want to sign a confidentiality agreement (a standard business practice when examining financials) is telling as to their real motives.
Smellytele
Well-known member
You are in the top 10 for longest posts.
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