Jay Peak bombshell

noreasterbackcountry · Oct 27, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
When you say things like the above, it's painfully obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, financially speaking. You clearly have no accounting background, do not work in finance, and have never worked on an audit a day in your life. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

Yeah, because invoices, receipts, banks statements and the other items listed as being required on the USCIS filing are never used in audits. Ever.

Cannonball · Oct 27, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
When you say things like the above, it's painfully obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, financially speaking. You clearly have no accounting background, do not work in finance, and have never worked on an audit a day in your life. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

That's funny. I would think never having done those things would be worth a lot of points. And it would show obvious mercy from God if you never had to deal with any of that hell.

noreasterbackcountry · Oct 27, 2014

Cannonball said:
That's funny. I would think never having done those things would be worth a lot of points. And it would show obvious mercy from God if you never had to deal with any of that hell.

+1

BenedictGomez · Oct 27, 2014

noreasterbackcountry said:
Yeah, because invoices, receipts, banks statements and the other items listed as being required on the USCIS filing are never used in audits. Ever.

Good grief.......

Cannonball said:
That's funny. I would think never having done those things would be worth a lot of points. And it would show obvious mercy from God if you never had to deal with any of that hell.

To each, their own. I think finance and economics are fun. Some people read fiction for enjoyment in their free time, I look at housing reports, unemployment data, and economic outlooks. Yup, I'm a wild man at parties.....

VTKilarney · Oct 27, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
My "stance" is one of complete uncertainly, which is the only possible answer at the moment - and THAT'S the problem.

I have absolutely no idea what's going on, other than gross negligence on both the part of Jay Peak and the State of Vermont.

Good point - with one exception. We know two things:
1) The relationship between Jay Peak, the State of Vermont, and the Tramhaus investors has taken a big hit. That alone is very troubling when it comes to the ability of ski areas in Vermont to attract this type of investment. Even if you believe that there is nothing wrong, you still have to admit that the negative impact on access to this type of capital is an unfortunate consequence of whatever lies beneath.
2) At best this was a major public relations screwup.

MadMadWorld · Oct 27, 2014

noreasterbackcountry said:
Yeah, because invoices, receipts, banks statements and the other items listed as being required on the USCIS filing are never used in audits. Ever.

I think you are over simplifying things just a tad. You are making it seeming like they can just whip open Quick books and it's done.

Domeskier · Oct 27, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
To each, their own. I think finance and economics are fun. Some people read fiction for enjoyment in their free time, I look at housing reports, unemployment data, and economic outlooks. Yup, I'm a wild man at parties.....

I heard the cops had to be called in on you guys when Vail released its annual report last year...

noreasterbackcountry · Oct 27, 2014

VTKilarney said:
Even if you believe that there is nothing wrong, you still have to admit that the negative impact on access to this type of capital is an unfortunate consequence of whatever lies beneath.

Agreed.

BenedictGomez · Oct 27, 2014

MadMadWorld said:
I think you are over simplifying things just a tad. You are making it seeming like they can just whip open Quick books and it's done.

You mean it doesn't work like that? Dude, they're apparently holding onto receipts. RECEIPTS I tell you! They're iron-clad impenetrable at this point. Bulletproof.

noreasterbackcountry · Oct 27, 2014

MadMadWorld said:
I think you are over simplifying things just a tad. You are making it seeming like they can just whip open Quick books and it's done.

I'd say claiming there is "zero" oversight or other such equivocal statements are oversimplifications versus pointing out the fact that there are at least three layers of oversight built into the process. (Four if you count the investors' access to the financial information)

MadMadWorld · Oct 27, 2014

Every time I read this thread all I can think about is this....

BenedictGomez · Oct 27, 2014

MadMadWorld said:
Every time I read this thread all I can think about is this....

Good example.

In Dumb and Dumber, the briefcase contained $5M dollars. So we need 100 of those $5M suitcases for a Jay Peak comparable.

This thread needs a Vegas-style Over/Under on the sum the forensic accounting team wont be able to verify after reviewing all the records. I'll set the Over/Under at $10M.

noreasterbackcountry · Oct 27, 2014

Except they would have to forge the bank records as well. Or are the banks in on your grand fraud conspiracy too?

So far we have Stenger, Quiros, everyone at the Regional Center, Jay Peak's management, the investors' attorneys, the media, the USCIS officers reviewing records, and the banks... Am I missing anyone?

BenedictGomez · Oct 27, 2014

noreasterbackcountry said:
Except they would have to forge the bank records as well. Or are the banks in on your grand fraud conspiracy too?

So far we have Stenger, Quiros, everyone at the Regional Center, Jay Peak's management, the investors' attorneys, the media, the USCIS officers reviewing records, and the banks... Am I missing anyone?

I'm not alleging "fraud", but I am predicting the forensic accountant wont be able to tie out to the full, massive, approximately $500,000,000 sum, for reasons which may or may not be fraudulent. I'm fully expecting sloppy, incomplete, and generally laughably incompetent record keeping on Jay Peak's part via what little we already know of this matter (hopefully I'm wrong).

But FYI, in matters of fraud like you speak of, you generally don't need "hoards" of people to be involved in an embezzlement "conspiracy". It's not like the Hollywood movies, it's exactly the opposite. It's typically one well-placed person, perhaps a few people.

thetrailboss · Oct 27, 2014

Re: $500 million raised

We were talking about that tonight is that it seems obvious that they DON'T have $500 mill in the bank. If they did, ALL the projects would be well underway. They are not. I think they've got a lot of investors lined up but not $500 mill.

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MadMadWorld · Oct 27, 2014

thetrailboss said:
Re: $500 million raised

We were talking about that tonight is that it seems obvious that they DON'T have $500 mill in the bank. If they did, ALL the projects would be well underway. They are not. I think they've got a lot of investors lined up but not $500 mill.

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That's what the "I owe you" are for!

thetrailboss · Oct 27, 2014

noreasterbackcountry said:
I'd say claiming there is "zero" oversight or other such equivocal statements are oversimplifications versus pointing out the fact that there are at least three layers of oversight built into the process. (Four if you count the investors' access to the financial information)

Really? Pray tell, who is doing this oversight? Before this Kurfuffle, nobody really. We've only spent twenty pages going over and over that point.

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BenedictGomez · Oct 27, 2014

thetrailboss said:
Re: $500 million raised

We were talking about that tonight is that it seems obvious that they DON'T have $500 mill in the bank. If they did, ALL the projects would be well underway. They are not. I think they've got a lot of investors lined up but not $500 mill.

It's in one of those previous VTDigger articles. I think they're currently somewhere north of $300M+ and south of $400M IIRC.

thetrailboss · Oct 27, 2014

BenedictGomez said:
It's in one of those previous VTDigger articles. I think they're currently somewhere north of $300M+ and south of $400M IIRC.

Makes sense. Thanks.

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thetrailboss · Oct 27, 2014

MadMadWorld said:
That's what the "I owe you" are for!

sure as hell hope not!

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