Portland to Conway Ski Trains?

bobbutts said:

We went all in with cars/roads and allowed the rail infrastructure to crumble. I feel like it may be that the rail ship sailed a long time ago. Our rail service is now so poor that people familiar with it don't like it. I took the Acela and also Standard Amtrak to NJ a few times and it was slow, uncomfortable, bad service, overpriced. The drive is a pain, but it still beats Amtrak. I've been to EU a few times and used and loved the rail service there, but I don't really see how the USA can get from where we are now to having a great rail system.

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We will never get to where Europe is with rail. They made a financial commitment early on and took the land they needed. We built the Eisenhower system and didn't, and it will never happen now.

Regarding Acela, I disagree. I take it a few times a year for work. It's packed and the route is profitable, so others must prefer it over driving.

SIKSKIER said:

I find it hard to believe that in this current world of having the convience of your car at your disposal,that very many people would opt for being at the mercy of getting around without it after their arrival by train.I think there are very few people today that dont mind being confined to one place or else have to rent a car or other public transportation to explore outside a walking or trolley served village.I include myself.

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And that must be why the AutoTrain actually turns a profit like the Northeast Corridor. I wish it came all the way up into New England instead of just to Lorton VA.

Newpylong said:

We sped $150 billion a year on the US highway system - only a portion of which is recouped via tolls and gas tax. Do you drive? We don't close "non profitable" roads.

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Again, MUCH of the money is either wasted or misallocated to begin with, and the economic benefit of roads to GDP outstrips it's cost. You simply cannot say the same for rail in America. You might be the biggest "rail bull" on the planet, but you cannot economically get there. Those long-haul routes need to die. If you want to make the argument that a route like Downeaster should be allowed to continue to lose millions per year, so be it, it could be financed via the DC to NYC route and/or the NYC to Boston route, but SOME routes somewhere must die, or we'll just continue to loose tons of money every year, like we have for decades. This problem will, of course, take care of itself before long, this nation is nearly broke.

MEtoVTSkier said:

And that must be why the AutoTrain actually turns a profit like the Northeast Corridor. I wish it came all the way up into New England instead of just to Lorton VA.

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It does? I know it's very expensive, but I didn't realize it was profitable.

What I was told, but I can't seem to find any official report of financials, in a quick search. It is very popular and booked full quite often, as it should be with only 1 train traveling each direction daily. The Snowbirds seem to love it. I haven't taken it in a couple years, but it sure beats driving all night!

Wikipedia only has numbers from 2006, but here is what they say about the Autotrain:
The train grossed $49,351,664 in ticket revenue in Fiscal Year 2006, making it Amtrak's highest grossing single train. With total expenses of $62.1 million

If there were no unusual charges that year, this is not a ringing endorsement for the viability of long distance train routes. I'm a fan of rail travel, so it pains me to say it.

VTKilarney said:

Wikipedia only has numbers from 2006, but here is what they say about the Autotrain:
The train grossed $49,351,664 in ticket revenue in Fiscal Year 2006, making it Amtrak's highest grossing single train. With total expenses of $62.1 million

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TRANSLATION:

The Auto Train loses a lot of money.

Portland to Conway is nothing. Figures they'd actually put time in talking about this when there are needed routes to greater employment in the better paying jobs(ie Portland from areas 70mi+ away). Portland to Conway is shorter by automobile....

BenedictGomez said:

TRANSLATION:

The Auto Train loses a lot of money.

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THEY ALL DO...WE GET IT...SO DO HIGHWAYS...EVEN ON TOLL ROADS, WHICH ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN, THE TOLLS DO NOT COVER THE EXPENSE OF MAINTAINING THE ROADS ON WHICH THEY ARE CHARGED

having said that there can be no debate that rail, passenger or otherwise is a critical component of our national infrastructure, and the conservative fetish with de-funding it, then saying "look, derrrrp, it doesn't work", is mind-boggling

Portland to Conway is shorter by automobile....

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It is for me if I happen to be up in the 'County! I'm not driving south to Portland to ride it when I can get head west on Rt2 from Newport

VTKilarney said:

Wikipedia only has numbers from 2006, but here is what they say about the Autotrain:
The train grossed $49,351,664 in ticket revenue in Fiscal Year 2006, making it Amtrak's highest grossing single train. With total expenses of $62.1 million

If there were no unusual charges that year, this is not a ringing endorsement for the viability of long distance train routes. I'm a fan of rail travel, so it pains me to say it.

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Yeah, I saw that too, but if I recall there WAS a price increase a while back, I remember my parents saying something about it when they bought a home in FL. So hopefully it is doing better than the 2006 numbers...

spring_mountain_high said:

THEY ALL DO...WE GET IT...SO DO HIGHWAYS...EVEN ON TOLL ROADS, WHICH ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN, THE TOLLS DO NOT COVER THE EXPENSE OF MAINTAINING THE ROADS ON WHICH THEY ARE CHARGED

having said that there can be no debate that rail, passenger or otherwise is a critical component of our national infrastructure, and the conservative fetish with de-funding it, then saying "look, derrrrp, it doesn't work", is mind-boggling

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I agree, and if I had my wish, they'd be running a train from Fort Kent, Maine to Miami, Florida once a week, and I'd eliminate most of my driving up and down I95. And a link from North Station to South Station in Boston would be nice too!

spring_mountain_high said:

having said that there can be no debate that rail, passenger or otherwise is a critical component of our national infrastructure, and the conservative fetish with de-funding it, then saying "look, derrrrp, it doesn't work", is mind-boggling

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My issue is your assertion that all rail is a critical component of our national infrastructure. Given our highway system (for better of for worse), I'm not sure you can paint with such a broad brush.

spring_mountain_high said:

THEY ALL DO...WE GET IT...SO DO HIGHWAYS...EVEN ON TOLL ROADS, WHICH ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN, THE TOLLS DO NOT COVER THE EXPENSE OF MAINTAINING THE ROADS ON WHICH THEY ARE CHARGED

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No. They dont. You're not grasping the concept of "effect upon GDP" versus, "I made $1 selling a Dixie cup of lemonade".

spring_mountain_high said:

having said that there can be no debate that rail, passenger or otherwise is a critical component of our national infrastructure

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Rail goods/transport? Absolutely;correct.

Passenger? Absolutely not. Not even remotely. Not only is your "no debate" belief wrong, it's gargantuanly wrong.

spring_mountain_high said:

and the conservative fetish with de-funding it, then saying "look, derrrrp, it doesn't work", is mind-boggling

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First, I hardly think it's a "conservative fetish" to defund AMTRAK, I think there are millions of moderate Americans, and probably more than a few Liberal Americans who believe AMTRAK should be defunded given its' near absolute failure, which has persisted for literally, not figuratively, decades.

Secondly, and I don't mean to be condescending, but we've already sank BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in taxpayer money into it since the 1970's, and it "look, derrrp, doesn't work" financially even WITH all that money. It has never worked. It has never been efficient. And only a few routes (literally) are anything less than an unmitigated financial disaster. So I don't even understand what you mean with this "defund it" and THEN say it "doesn't work" line, I don't even think you understand it. We already fund the crap out of it and it "derrrrp, doesn't work".

MEtoVTSkier said:

I agree, and if I had my wish, they'd be running a train from Fort Kent, Maine to Miami, Florida once a week, and I'd eliminate most of my driving up and down I95.

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Sounds delightful. Why stop at Miami though, go all the way to Key West! There's at least a 60% chance our children are screwed anyway, may as well red-line it to 100%.

VTKilarney said:

My issue is your assertion that all rail is a critical component of our national infrastructure.

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It's not. Not even remotely. It's a completely absurd assertion.

BenedictGomez said:

Sounds delightful. Why stop at Miami though, go all the way to Key West! There's at least a 60% chance our children are screwed anyway, may as well red-line it to 100%.

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Thought about saying Key West, but then I remembered reading about the '35 Labor Day Hurricane that took out the last railway that went there.

MEtoVTSkier said:

Thought about saying Key West, but then I remembered reading about the '35 Labor Day Hurricane that took out the last railway that went there.

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On the bright side, it makes for some good fishing by the cover along those stanchions.