Ebola

drjeff · Oct 16, 2014

jack97 said:
The admin and CDC is part of this clusterfVck, the (2nd) nurse ask the cdc if it was ok to fly even with an elevated temp., they did not restrict her.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/eb...mber-vinson-checked-cdc-flight-source-n226961

When the aids pandemic (?) hit us many years ago, there was constant source of misinformation or unknowns. That in itself cost some lives.

True in hindsight there was some misinformation back during the onset of the aids crisis. But one also has to remember that with new and "emerging" infectious diseases, modern science often doesn't know the full mechanism of how it is an isn't spread until they've seen enough cases to see a repeatable trend of the infection process. And this is a BIG factor with the spread of infectious disease, since there can be hundreds if not thousands of variables in the infection process, and until one is able to eliminate a bunch of the variables, figuring out the "constants" can be a challenge. Let alone when some of the "detective" work that is done retrospectively often involves the investigator having to some extent rely upon the sick patient's, or a friend/relative/colleague of the sick patient's recollection of an event (the actual infection) that may have occurred days/weeks/months before

It's this detective process, and all the uncertainty around it, that can, and often does lead to misinformation being spread.

The bottom line is that one should assume, until the repeatable spreading mechanism of the disease process is determined, that it IS spread more easily than it may be portrayed. That may sound harsh and reactionary, BUT it's likely prudent in this case until we know how it spreads and how to stop the spread

deadheadskier · Oct 16, 2014

drjeff said:
The bottom line is that one should assume, until the repeatable spreading mechanism of the disease process is determined, that it IS spread more easily than it may be portrayed. That may sound harsh and reactionary, BUT it's likely prudent in this case until we know how it spreads and how to stop the spread

This guy didn't get that memo:

:blink:

Funky_Catskills · Oct 16, 2014

Why is that bad?
The patient has a suit on.. the people in the suits were probably attending to the patient before the hit the tarmac..
I doubt the pilot is going to put on a suit...

This is how mis information is passed... by pictures with no explanations or real thought put into what's being shown..

skiNEwhere · Oct 16, 2014

deadheadskier said:
This guy didn't get that memo:

:blink:

This person did though!

ImageUploadedByAlpineZone1413474388.767790.jpg

deadheadskier · Oct 16, 2014

FC, Who is to say the patients suit is functioning properly? What if its not and that guy accidentally rubbed up against the stretcher?

Perhaps my mindset is different than yours after recently working in a hospital for two years. We gloved, gowned and put on face masks constantly just in case. No one stepped foot in the same room as a patient without gloves on at the very least.

ThinkSnow · Oct 16, 2014

drjeff said:
The bottom line is that one should assume, until the repeatable spreading mechanism of the disease process is determined, that it IS spread more easily than it may be portrayed. That may sound harsh and reactionary, BUT it's likely prudent in this case until we know how it spreads and how to stop the spread

The transmission mechanism is currently known-- it is transmitted via bodily fluids, which means some sort of contact is required. What's not known is the virus's ability for its transmission mechanism to mutate to new routes of transmission (eg, airborne).

Puck it · Oct 16, 2014

ThinkSnow said:
The transmission mechanism is currently known-- it is transmitted via bodily fluids, which means some sort of contact is required. What's not known is the virus's ability for its transmission mechanism to mutate to new routes of transmission (eg, airborne).

Not true fully. The virus can survive outside of the host for a couple hours on a dry surface and in the fluids for several hours. So direct contact with the host is not needed.

drjeff · Oct 16, 2014

ThinkSnow said:
The transmission mechanism is currently known-- it is transmitted via bodily fluids, which means some sort of contact is required. What's not known is the virus's ability for its transmission mechanism to mutate to new routes of transmission (eg, airborne).

In other words ONE of mechanism of transfer is known. We don't know as of yet if there are OTHER mechanisms of transfer.

In infection control, the rule is to assume that everyone has everything until you're certain they don't

ThinkSnow · Oct 16, 2014

Puck it said:
Not true fully. The virus can survive outside of the host for a couple hours on a dry surface and in the fluids for several hours. So direct contact with the host is not needed.

Never mentioned "host."

Puck it · Oct 16, 2014

ThinkSnow said:
Never mentioned "host."

It was assumed as direct contact. Contact with bodily fluids outside the body is a secondary contact.

ThinkSnow · Oct 16, 2014

Never mentioned "direct" either.

:wink:

Funky_Catskills · Oct 16, 2014

deadheadskier said:
FC, Who is to say the patients suit is functioning properly? What if its not and that guy accidentally rubbed up against the stretcher?

Perhaps my mindset is different than yours after recently working in a hospital for two years. We gloved, gowned and put on face masks constantly just in case. No one stepped foot in the same room as a patient without gloves on at the very least.

Who can say anything?
You have to trust your training and equipment..

It's the same with space suits... People use them - they don't die..

deadheadskier · Oct 16, 2014

Your opinion is different than mine FC and that's fine. You'd be fine standing as that guy in the picture is, I wouldn't be.

Two nurses trusted their training and equipment in Texas. They now have the disease. Knowing that, I'm not standing anywhere near an infected person without serious protection. YMMV

skiNEwhere · Oct 16, 2014

deadheadskier said:
Two nurses trusted their training and equipment in Texas. They now have the disease. Knowing that, I'm not standing anywhere near an infected person without serious protection. YMMV

+1

How's that old saying go? "An ounce of prevents is worth a pound of cure"

drjeff · Oct 16, 2014

deadheadskier said:
Your opinion is different than mine FC and that's fine. You'd be fine standing as that guy in the picture is, I wouldn't be.

Two nurses trusted their training and equipment in Texas. They now have the disease. Knowing that, I'm not standing anywhere near an infected person without serious protection. YMMV

Now there's a report that came out today that a grad student in infectious diseases from Yale, who the school sent over to help set up a computer tracking/data collection system in Africa, and per the school's and the student's own knowledge never came into direct contact with a person who had ebola has been admitted to Yale - New Haven Hospital with "ebola like symptoms" for monitoring in a negative pressure room (they returned from Africa about 2 weeks ago). Hopefully it will just be a common flu, but if it is actually ebola, it just goes to show you how unknown all the mechanisms of transfer are and that the reality is we just don't know very much about this apparently not to difficult to transfer, very virulent virus

At times there's the urge for "common good" and "help the world" mentality, but there are also times, when even the most noble of emergency responders have to make the call to let and in some cases even have to stand back and watch the "victim" die for their own safety, which needs to come first. This might very well be a case where say 5,000 or 10,000 will need to go untreated and die to keep hundreds of thousands from getting infected and likely dying since there just isn't the available treatment resources available anywhere in the world in enough supply to treat a massive, wide scale infection

deadheadskier · Oct 16, 2014

drjeff said:
At times there's the urge for "common good" and "help the world" mentality, but there are also times, when even the most noble of emergency responders have to make the call to let and in some cases even have to stand back and watch the "victim" die for their own safety, which needs to come first. This might very well be a case where say 5,000 or 10,000 will need to go untreated and die to keep hundreds of thousands from getting infected and likely dying since there just isn't the available treatment resources available anywhere in the world in enough supply to treat a massive, wide scale infection

sounds like a movie

ThinkSnow · Oct 17, 2014

That movie is very likely loosely based on "The Hot Zone."

A book about the first case of ebola in Reston, VA back in the 1970's.

That book will scare the $h@t out of you.

buellski · Oct 17, 2014

JimG. · Oct 17, 2014

The Hot Zone is a scary book. I read it 20 years ago when Ebola was mostly confined to caves and remote African tribes.

My son Peter is at Cornell, they just sent a notice to all students that they have instituted travel restrictions. They also "strongly discourage" hosting visitors from affected regions of Africa. Alot of smart people at Cornell.

Funky_Catskills · Oct 17, 2014

So... Everybody OK? cool..

Wash your hands...

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