How wide are your skis underfoot?

jack97 · Jan 30, 2007

tjf67 said:
I read through a lot of the posts. IMO what determines the edge grip is the rigidity of the ski but more so the side cut. The larger the side cut the more grip I get. My AC4 have more grip than any of the other skis I have owned except for my atomic metrons. I dont remember the excact dimensions but they had a ton of side cut. I could stand right on them and they would grip just about anything.
I always say I am not going any fatter and I always seem to.
I ski Whiteface. I have a little exp on hardpack

I definitely agree on the torsional rigidity for edge grip on hardpack. The factors for a lot of side cut (or narrow waist) is short turns and edge to edge quickness. EC trails can be narrow and twisty. Having a ski that can do all these things helps big time.

And when I am on a wide trail, the only time I can make a medium turns is on weekday, weekends are too crowded.

2knees · Jan 30, 2007

68mm. volant genesis gold. 110-68-98 175cm

i have a pair of volkls also but no idea what the waist is. i would guess its less then the volants.

goldsbar · Jan 30, 2007

tjf67 said:
I read through a lot of the posts. IMO what determines the edge grip is the rigidity of the ski but more so the side cut. The larger the side cut the more grip I get. My AC4 have more grip than any of the other skis I have owned except for my atomic metrons. I dont remember the excact dimensions but they had a ton of side cut. I could stand right on them and they would grip just about anything.
I always say I am not going any fatter and I always seem to.
I ski Whiteface. I have a little exp on hardpack

Here we go:

*Torsional stiffness is very important - a ski should not twist. This is much easier to accomplish with a thin ski. It is also much easier to accomplish in a ski that is generally stiff.

*Stiffness - stiffer is not better. Softer is not better. The correct stiffness for your weight, desired turn and speed is best. Faster & heavier = stiffer; Stiff ski at slower speeds = no fun and impossible to carve

*Length - shorter = more pressure on the contact patch = better grip

*Sidecut - not sure on this one but I think it really relates to your turn shape. If you want to make short turns, use a slalom style. Long turns, more of a GS side cut.

*Edge tune - obviously, sharper is better. Other factors apply such as base and side edge bevel. Most peope equate more side edge bevel - say 3* - with better grip but this can have the effect of "locking" the ski into a turn

*Riser plates - higher boot = higher leverage = higher grip

*Skier ability - now here's the big one. If you don't understand terms like carving rr tracks, counter balancing and counter rotation, then you're never going to get good grip skidding down the mountain regardless of your setup. Took me a very long time to figure that out.

At least that's what I've been able to take away from various message boards...

SKIQUATTRO · Jan 30, 2007

Atomic Metron M10 122/74/108

jack97 · Jan 30, 2007

goldsbar said:
*Riser plates - higher boot = higher leverage = higher grip

I 've also seen the trend that recreational slaloms are higher in the middle than an all mountain. Alleviates some of the problem of booting out. And helps getting to the edge quicker due to the higher leverage than a flatter ski.

Kind of curious if the new mid fats are getting higher in the middle to take advantage of this too. Last year, I thought the Atomic & Volkl mid fat was slighty higher than the all mountains that I have grown use to.

drjeff · Jan 30, 2007

I've got 76mm on my 172cm Atomic B5 Metrons, which looks really, really skinny compared to the 131mm they are at the tips!

eastcoastskiier · Jan 30, 2007

when looking for your everyday all mountain side cut.. between 13-16 are GREAT for east coast, for me anyways it seems to be the best of both world, you can make a sharp enough turn on those tight trails.. and when the mountains are empty and your ripping those groomers your still able to draw out and hold a great edge

Jay's Dip Powcher · Jan 30, 2007

eastcoastskiier said:
when looking for your everyday all mountain side cut.. between 13-16 are GREAT for east coast, for me anyways it seems to be the best of both world, you can make a sharp enough turn on those tight trails.. and when the mountains are empty and your ripping those groomers your still able to draw out and hold a great edge

how do you like the Z10's?

And I am skiing 76, 80 and I just got a pair of P-Rockets 90. I went from 69 waist Rossi Zenith z3's to K2 Enemy's 76 (I think) last year to 1080's 80mm this year to now a pair of PR's 90mm in the mail. This progression for me has been really good. the 1080's have me performing the best I ever have on groomers and I feel more stable and more fluid. I do the occasional Jay trip and am looking forward to seeing how they do in the tree's. Cheating or not they work and not just on POW which we seem to never get.
Note I have been skiing since I was 7 years old and never had a lesson and am not pretty on the slopes but get it done in control and have a blast. Fatter is better in my case and if you are making your judgemments without actually skiing fatter waisted skiis please give it a go as science is not everything especially when it comes to something as diverse as skiing habits and comfortability. Unlock those knees and have some fun!:-D

eastcoastskiier · Jan 31, 2007

Jay's Dip Powcher said:
how do you like the Z10's?

And I am skiing 76, 80 and I just got a pair of P-Rockets 90. I went from 69 waist Rossi Zenith z3's to K2 Enemy's 76 (I think) last year to 1080's 80mm this year to now a pair of PR's 90mm in the mail. This progression for me has been really good. the 1080's have me performing the best I ever have on groomers and I feel more stable and more fluid. I do the occasional Jay trip and am looking forward to seeing how they do in the tree's. Cheating or not they work and not just on POW which we seem to never get.
Note I have been skiing since I was 7 years old and never had a lesson and am not pretty on the slopes but get it done in control and have a blast. Fatter is better in my case and if you are making your judgemments without actually skiing fatter waisted skiis please give it a go as science is not everything especially when it comes to something as diverse as skiing habits and comfortability. Unlock those knees and have some fun!:-D

i think the enemy's are 84 under foot... but neither here nor there.. i ahve the red Z10ti binding and i really like it.. the new Anti Friction Plate is much better then the Sperical one they they used to use. and on release check its performed flawlessly so far.. the only thing i dont like about it, and its the same with all Z10's is that they all sound like there is a small bead inside, so when your holding our skis and shake them you hear this rattling noise.. Im not a fan of it.. once your skiing though they perform great and you dont here it at all. Make sure you get a wide brake kit for it. the standard brake on the Z10 is an 80, and i believe its an 85 on the Z12(?) but you can 'adjust' (pry) that one to fit fine..

i have the Salomon Gun Boots, and looked at the ski's to match, but ended up getting the K2 Fugatives for just Pure Park.. How are you liking them so far?

SkiDog · Jan 31, 2007

eastcoastskiier said:
i have the Salomon Gun Boots, and looked at the ski's to match, but ended up getting the K2 Fugatives for just Pure Park.. How are you liking them so far?

I for one...love my GUNS......

M

bigbog · Jan 31, 2007

EC waists...

68mm - Fischer RX6s w/their RF system (luv em')
81mm - Dynastar 8000s w/Z12ti(Salomon) (*So far, a terrific combo;-))

Jay's Dip Powcher · Jan 31, 2007

eastcoastskiier said:
i think the enemy's are 84 under foot... but neither here nor there.. i ahve the red Z10ti binding and i really like it.. the new Anti Friction Plate is much better then the Sperical one they they used to use. and on release check its performed flawlessly so far.. the only thing i dont like about it, and its the same with all Z10's is that they all sound like there is a small bead inside, so when your holding our skis and shake them you hear this rattling noise.. Im not a fan of it.. once your skiing though they perform great and you dont here it at all. Make sure you get a wide brake kit for it. the standard brake on the Z10 is an 80, and i believe its an 85 on the Z12(?) but you can 'adjust' (pry) that one to fit fine..

i have the Salomon Gun Boots, and looked at the ski's to match, but ended up getting the K2 Fugatives for just Pure Park.. How are you liking them so far?

I really like the 1080's a lot, they are soft but I seem to get them on edge well and I have had them going full tilt and no chatter and no wandering at all. This is why I purchased the Pocket Rockets, similar ski but w i d e r. Took advice from a good friend Devo said this would be a good everyday ski for me as I mounted Fritschi's on the 1080 for touring days. I do not do the park but it get's great reviews for that because of the snap they have and are surpisingly agile. Great ski I think , at least for me and will get another pair when I beat these to death.

KevinF · Feb 1, 2007

koreshot said:
skis with very sharp sidecuts keep less of the edge on the snow when not fully bend into a carve, which probably results in less grip.

I'd think you'd need to lay that ski way, way over in order to have any appreciable amount of the edge off the snow. Anybody capable of skiing with their hips inches off the snow is capable of carving, so it's kind of a moot point.

KevinF · Feb 1, 2007

My skis are:

Elan SLX (slalom ski) -- 65mm waist
Elan Speedwave 12 -- 70mm waist
Elan Magfire 10 -- 75mm waist
K2 Apache Recon -- 79mm waist

I use the SLX primarily for night-league racing at Nashoba -- that thing is a serious ice skate. The Speedwave12 and Magfire10 are my primary skis for normal east-coast skiing. I don't think I've ever used the Recon's here on the East.

Going much over mid-70s makes it hard for me to feel when the edges are starting to engage, when I'm really running on a flat ski, etc. I feel like I have to lay my Recon's over really, really far to get a good carve going on them.

hrstrat57 · Feb 1, 2007

Volkl Allstar=70
Fischer RX8=66
Volkl Explosiv=95

Puck it · Feb 2, 2007

East coast ripper will not ski into Corbet's. I heard you are going with a guy that will blow your doors off. You might as well stick to the bunny slopes there.

koreshot · Feb 3, 2007

KevinF said:
I'd think you'd need to lay that ski way, way over in order to have any appreciable amount of the edge off the snow. Anybody capable of skiing with their hips inches off the snow is capable of carving, so it's kind of a moot point.

Its a matter of uneven edge pressure too. I think the drawbacks of aggressive sidecut (say less than 20m radius) come into play on very steep terrain and chutes, where your hip is inches away from the snow. The problem gets worse on concave surfaces, something that is pretty common in steep, narrow spaces.

The point is probably moot for EC carving skis on groomers, but not so for skis used off piste.

eastcoastskiier · Feb 5, 2007

jack97 said:
I 've also seen the trend that recreational slaloms are higher in the middle than an all mountain. Alleviates some of the problem of booting out. And helps getting to the edge quicker due to the higher leverage than a flatter ski.

Kind of curious if the new mid fats are getting higher in the middle to take advantage of this too. Last year, I thought the Atomic & Volkl mid fat was slighty higher than the all mountains that I have grown use to.

i hav been looking and most midfats now, and most skis in general all have mounting plates/lifter plates already attached, giving you some 8-10mm of lift...

this yeah actually on the K2 Ricon Apache and Stryker the did build up the ski in the waste, but not quite the amount a lifter plate gived you. hen hey built up the walls even more to the sidewalls of the ski match right up with th binding which is desined to direct your energy directly to your on snow edge... I demod the new system last year, but frankly forget which ski felt like what

tjf67 · Feb 5, 2007

goldsbar said:
Here we go:

*Torsional stiffness is very important - a ski should not twist. This is much easier to accomplish with a thin ski. It is also much easier to accomplish in a ski that is generally stiff.

*Stiffness - stiffer is not better. Softer is not better. The correct stiffness for your weight, desired turn and speed is best. Faster & heavier = stiffer; Stiff ski at slower speeds = no fun and impossible to carve

*Length - shorter = more pressure on the contact patch = better grip

*Sidecut - not sure on this one but I think it really relates to your turn shape. If you want to make short turns, use a slalom style. Long turns, more of a GS side cut.

*Edge tune - obviously, sharper is better. Other factors apply such as base and side edge bevel. Most peope equate more side edge bevel - say 3* - with better grip but this can have the effect of "locking" the ski into a turn

*Riser plates - higher boot = higher leverage = higher grip

*Skier ability - now here's the big one. If you don't understand terms like carving rr tracks, counter balancing and counter rotation, then you're never going to get good grip skidding down the mountain regardless of your setup. Took me a very long time to figure that out.

At least that's what I've been able to take away from various message boards...

The side cut does make a difference to me. You lean into the cut and you have the bow of the ski engaged on the surface. On Ice/Hardpack the side cut naturally shapes around and you have more edge on the surface without having to bend the ski. Without as much bend you dont get the snap loose affect when the edge looses grip on the ice. I put all my weght on the edge with with the center of my foot for even pressure through out the ski and it seems to hold best.

wa-loaf · Feb 7, 2007

Elan Ripsticks - 178cm 107/66/95

Supercross race skis I use for night racing at Wachusett. They also handle really well in crud and bumps.

How wide are your skis underfoot?

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