Peak Resorts: The New ASC?

Yup, Otten was a total failure

Let me guess BG.......if we were ever lucky enough to have you enter the ski resort business.......

You would interconnect Bolton, Stowe and Smuggs creating a resort rivaling Vail in size. You would do this by negotiating a 1% interest rate loan through the state of Vermont as well as a drastically reduced property tax bill. State politicians would recognize you as the economic prophet that you are and want you on board to save the state's economy. They'd handover their wallet and sweep Act 250 under the rug while doing it.

Upon property acquisition, you would use your interstellar meteorology talents to predict an exact forecast for Gomez Mountain resort each year allowing you to pre-buy the precise quantity of diesel the resort will need at a deep discount. This of course would only be necessary for the first few seasons as by summer 2017 you would negotiate a fracking contract with the state to extract the Mansfield ridges oil reserves to fully fuel the property. With your new found wealth you'd buy out all the solar and wind loving hippies in the state and ship their equipment off to China.

Sound about right?

Am I missing other subject areas where you are smarter than anyone who has ever lived? :grin:

deadheadskier said:

yup, otten was a total failure

let me guess bg.......if we were ever lucky enough to have you enter the ski resort business.......

You would interconnect bolton, stowe and smuggs creating a resort rivaling vail in size. You would do this by negotiating a 1% interest rate loan through the state of vermont as well as a drastically reduced property tax bill. State politicians would recognize you as the economic prophet that you are and want you on board to save the state's economy. They'd handover their wallet and sweep act 250 under the rug while doing it.

Upon property acquisition, you would use your interstellar meteorology talents to predict an exact forecast for gomez mountain resort each year allowing you to pre-buy the precise quantity of diesel the resort will need at a deep discount. This of course would only be necessary for the first few seasons as by summer 2017 you would negotiate a fracking contract with the state to extract the mansfield ridges oil reserves to fully fuel the property. With your new found wealth you'd buy out all the solar and wind loving hippies in the state and ship their equipment off to china.

Sound about right?

Am i missing other subject areas where you are smarter than anyone who has ever lived? :grin:

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LOL. I want to be a Gomez Mountain homer.

deadheadskier said:

Yup, Otten was a total failure

Let me guess BG.......if we were ever lucky enough to have you enter the ski resort business.......

You would interconnect Bolton, Stowe and Smuggs creating a resort rivaling Vail in size. You would do this by negotiating a 1% interest rate loan through the state of Vermont as well as a drastically reduced property tax bill. State politicians would recognize you as the economic prophet that you are and want you on board to save the state's economy. They'd handover their wallet and sweep Act 250 under the rug while doing it.

Upon property acquisition, you would use your interstellar meteorology talents to predict an exact forecast for Gomez Mountain resort each year allowing you to pre-buy the precise quantity of diesel the resort will need at a deep discount. This of course would only be necessary for the first few seasons as by summer 2017 you would negotiate a fracking contract with the state to extract the Mansfield ridges oil reserves to fully fuel the property. With your new found wealth you'd buy out all the solar and wind loving hippies in the state and ship their equipment off to China.

Sound about right?

Am I missing other subject areas where you are smarter than anyone who has ever lived? :grin:

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Sounds good to me. Sign me up. Although Bolton Valley is a bit of a stretch for an interconnect. I would just put a T-bar up Birthday Bowl.

MadMadWorld said:

Sounds good to me. Sign me up. Although Bolton Valley is a bit of a stretch for an interconnect. I would just put a T-bar up Birthday Bowl.

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See, this is why we need BG in charge and not you. You don't have the vision my friend. There's a 4 or so mile ridge of mountains between Stowe and Bolton, all capable of offering 1000+ vert pods. Steeple trail on Dewey? On the trail map brother. We're talking a mega-resort here man. Not some wimpy Killingtonesque poverty resort!

deadheadskier said:

Yup, Otten was a total failure

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The above is far closer to the truth than what you (apparently) believe.

If you take on so much debt and leverage yourself to death........to the eventual DOWNFALL of an entire friggin' company....literally......., that is not "success".

It's nothing more than smoke and mirrors that was fueled by massive debt & spending. Buy, Buy, Buy, Grow, Grow, Grow!!!!! Though the fact we can find people in 2014 that strongly believe otherwise speaks volumes to the current state of our troubles.

You're right, I know nothing of ski resort success. I'm really trying to learn though.

I'm just happy you have the time of day to share your knowledge here in between phone calls with Warren Buffet and Janet Yellen. How's my boy Greenspan doing lately? Next time you speak with him, tell him I asked "What's up homey." Thanks

deadheadskier said:

You're right, I know nothing of ski resort success. I'm really trying to learn though.

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Les Otten took an entity public to the tune of a few hundred millions dollars.....borrowed more....spent a crapload of money..........was forced out as CEO due to the financial trainwreck seen rumbling down the tracks, and his company was literally DELISTED by the New York Stock Exchange, essentially worthless.

By the way, this all occurred in the span of about 3 or 4 years IIRC. There is no possible stretch of the imagination that you can call this a "success". I'm dumbfounded.

I'm aware of how things ended. That's not always how you measure success. I personally know people who had great jobs working for ASC during their heyday; life altering jobs from good compensation. We've all seen where those resorts are today compared to when he started in the late 70s. No man has changed the landscape of New England skiing more. A lot of people benefited greatly from the work he did. I know I have regarding my on snow experiences.

Sometimes the greats gamble and lose. Hell, Donald Trump is worth how many billion? How many times has he filed chapter 11 due to bad gambles and other market conditions?

Before it's too late, you should contact the Balsams people and let them know they got the wrong guy and you're available for a steep price. I'd be happy to write you a reference letter.

deadheadskier said:

I'm aware of how things ended. That's not always how you measure success.

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I'm glad we can agree that losing hundreds of millions of dollars (literally) of other people's money in just a few years (literally) and being forced to quit isnt a "measure" of success. So I don't see why you attacked my opinion so aggressively given this new-found agreement.

And I'm glad to hear you and your friends had fun in the 90s. Must not have had any money tied up in SKI!

Dude, I'm just having a little fun here. relax

If you want me to say, "Yes, BG, you are right. You are ALWAYS right." Well, there you go.

deadheadskier said:

Dude, I'm just having a little fun here. relax

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No time to relax when people are in need of a financial education. You've been schooled, buddy.

I don't want to come across as an apologist for Les Otten, but no one held a gun to anyone's head saying you have to buy stock in ASC.

If Les Otten leaves something positive behind
- The Grand Hotels as a paradigm for on-site lodging. It's a different sport when you don't have to start your car, don't have shovel out your car; don't have to drive and don't have to deal with the base lodge. You get up, walk out the door, put on your skis and go. No cafeterias, no public rest rooms, etc.
- ASC really pushed the HS-Detachables which are lovely for the guests and are now industry normative.

joshua segal said:

If Les Otten leaves something positive behind
- The Grand Hotels as a paradigm for on-site lodging.

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That's due to him? Nobody had central hotels like that before he was in the industry? Sounds weird.

BG if I hit Powerball or Megamillions I will buy Tenney, put in a HSQ, and give you a few million to build it up. Seriously

BenedictGomez said:

I'm glad we can agree that losing hundreds of millions of dollars (literally) of other people's money in just a few years (literally) and being forced to quit isnt a "measure" of success. So I don't see why you attacked my opinion so aggressively given this new-found agreement.

And I'm glad to hear you and your friends had fun in the 90s. Must not have had any money tied up in SKI!

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FWIW: I don't care for LBO. I think he has a huge ego and have no financial stake with him whatsoever, but DHS is a smart guy that knows eastern skiing, so I figured that since you're so biased against LBO, I'd try to help balance the sheet, so to speak...

Now to your points - unresearched and not supported with any information. (I only say that because in this subject, dates really do matter. Additionally, understanding why he failed and when he failed is important, too.)

Very few people had money tied up in SKI - It was a privately held company. It wasn't till this millenium that ASC came to be... A couple really bad snow years at the wrong time can mean life and death in this industry, and when they happened at the time they did, ASC couldn't recover, the damage was done. LBO hedged on getting people to the mountains and not people like you or me. He had enormous success with this all the way up to that IPO and then things went south. I personally think he invested too much in real estate and that was his downfall.

As I'm sure you know, that IPO was after the 90's and it was after SKI had changed the face of eastern (And some western) skiing forever. Was it in a good way? Debatable. Some people like lifts like Slidebrook or the other HSQs at the Bush. Some people like being able to ski Bear Mountain. Some people like the 7 peaks he developed at SR. Some people like that South Lake Tahoe is now linked to Heavenly Mountain Resort via the gondola - unlike it had been for 40+ years. Some people like the amount of new HS lifts, strategically placed FGs and peaks added there and to resorts like Steamboat and the Canyons.

The interesting thing about all the resorts I mentioned above is that they are all currently profitable ski resorts. So did LBO owning them at one time or another, help them or hurt them?

Interestingly, you mention having fun with other people's money and you mention places like Stowe. A wonderful mountain with great lifts, unnecessary over-the-road gondolas, and some resort-built accommodations that have helped drive the price of a lift ticket in the east far higher than it should be... Who was footing the bill for all of that?

The pros of ASC outnumber the cons. ASC and Otten BUILT Sunday River in less than two decades and The Canyons in one decade. 90% of those mountain's infrastructure is from Les. ASC started the "epic Pass" type of season passes by offering a bunch of mountains for a ridiculously low price. Look how well that's worked for Vail Resorts, and to a lesser extent, the Boyne and Peak resorts back here in the East. All the expansions that they made were permanent. You can lose money but you can't lose terrain (well, unless you're Killington). Look at New England Ski History and you'll see all the crazy schemes for Sugarbush, Attitash, and Killington. They would've been double the size they are now if Otten could've kept funding going.

The ASC pass was the shit in college. I think it was 199 (299 at the most) if I remember correctly.

jerryg

I appreciate the back up man, but we're wrong. BG has spoken.

Now that I got this revved up. I will say I am not a fan of Les Otten as a person. However he did have a major impact in the ski industry especially in the east. Also not to say ASC wasn't headed for disaster. What broke the camels back was a missed debt payment (that's what gets most companies). Now what caused that was a missed construction deadline at the Canyons. All the units were sold the money in the bank but the Units not finished so the cash was untouchable. Poof missed payments, penalties, etc and the rest is history.

jerryg said:

DHS is a smart guy...?

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Not really agreeing with this.