Questions re: shells vs. insulated jackets

Shells as said are way more versatile. I wear a softshell Marmont and later as needed, usually a base later and vest and I am good.
I do run hot.


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i haven't purchased (or looked at) softshells in recent years, how are they at moisture repelling? i seem to recall the one i had didn't do a great job staying dry.

gmcunni said:

i haven't purchased (or looked at) softshells in recent years, how are they at moisture repelling? i seem to recall the one i had didn't do a great job staying dry.

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Better out west than in the east

Jacket person.

I ski hard, and develop a lot of heat. I like to be able to unzip the jacket and dump heat at the bottom of a run if I need to. With a shell and layers, you need all the layers to have zips, and play with all the zips to dump the heat. I like the single zip.

People say you can find shells with all the pockets and utility you need, but I haven't seen that. On a daily basis I use:

The goggle inner pocket for goggles, neck gaitor, or granola bar.
Zip inner pocket for cash
Pass holder pocket
Hood pocket, stores zip on hood.
Key holder pocket has clip so car keys don't get lost.
Outer pocket for things I want to get at with gloves on like goggle wipes.
And a few more pockets for stuff.

I haven't seen shells with that kind of utility.

A lot of the Gore-Tex I've used is over rated. Again, if you ski hard and develop a lot of moisture, you reach a point where the vapor can't escape the membrane fast enough. For this same reason, I have never used a gore-tex glove I didn't sweat in.

I ski a lot, and the cost per day of the jacket is pretty low. So I have a mid winter parka length warm jacket, spring jacket hip length that is still insulated, but less, and the sleeves zip off to form a vest, and a light uninsulated stretchy fleece/shell with a full zip for 45-65 degrees. After that it's a Tshirt.

Coming into the lodge, I can take off one jacket and be comfortable. If I did the shell thing, I'd take off the shell, and 2 layers each time. Annoying. And then the reverse to go out.

Some of the better shells I've seen cost as much as a nice jacket.

But each to his own. Some people like shells. It's not like it's a snowboard. (Just kidding!!!)

I did spend 3 seasons in Colorado years ago in a very well built 100% down ski specific jacket. I too was impressed with how warm it was in bitter cold, and how well it breathed in the spring. You don't see that kind of jacket around these days, although down layers have recently gotten very trendy.

mister moose said:

Jacket person.

People say you can find shells with all the pockets and utility you need, but I haven't seen that. On a daily basis I use:

The goggle inner pocket for goggles, neck gaitor, or granola bar.
Zip inner pocket for cash
Pass holder pocket
Hood pocket, stores zip on hood.
Key holder pocket has clip so car keys don't get lost.
Outer pocket for things I want to get at with gloves on like goggle wipes.
And a few more pockets for stuff.

I haven't seen shells with that kind of utility.

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No idea what shells you were looking at, but all of my recent shells have had all of those features except for the hood. I prefer the ability to remove the hood, rather than roll it up into the neck roll.
All of these jackets were sub $300 and some much less. I find I usually end up in a North Face, but have several brands.

Hawkshot99 said:

No idea what shells you were looking at, but all of my recent shells have had all of those features except for the hood. I prefer the ability to remove the hood, rather than roll it up into the neck roll.
All of these jackets were sub $300 and some much less. I find I usually end up in a North Face, but have several brands.

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Agree either removable or no hood. With a helmet anyway

I'm all about the shells and demand lots of pockets. They are out there. I also look for mucho pants pockets which are handy in the spring. Shell only for pants, also.

It's all about the person though. Some people generate and dump heat at different rates than others. There's no one answer.

This is reminiscent of ski buying threads. It sounds like the question is really "what is a one jacket quiver?". As almost everyone has said, the answer to question is: Gore-tex (or equivalent) Shell. That is by far the most versatile option for temp, wind, precip, etc condition. Layering options are endless and can suit any condition as well as changing conditions. Plus it doubles as a hiking jacket, boat jacket, rainy day in the city jacket, etc. My Mountian Hardware Gore-tex shell is my go-to and it's the #1 piece of clothing I would grab if I had to run out the door in an emergency.

But with all that said.... Like skis a lot of us like to have some specialty options. So in addition to my shell I really like my:
- Insulated snowboarding jacket (Rossi) for cold, cold days. Also for days when I know I will be taking it relatively easy (no hiking). It has a huge hood that fits over my helmet easily. The neck comes up high enough to cover my whole face on the lift. It has endless pockets, a pass holder, pit zips, wrist cuffs, and on and on.
- Synthetic puffy FlyLow. Wore that today. I wouldn't wear it in the rain or high winds. But damn is it ever featherweight yet warm. Perfect for dry, cold-ish days.
- Softshells. I have several. Great for dry spring days. Comfortable, med weight. Great for spring days when the slopes and apres bar seem to be a blurry line.
- Tall Ts. Ummmm, no.

The Flylow shell I bought off of benwhiteskis here for $100 is the best ski jacket I've ever owned. Really lucked out. Its just a polyester prototype and IIRC the jacket he used when he skied the 48 NH 4k footers in a season.

Like my wife has shoes I have jackets

I used both over the years, I found a shell to be warmer. I don't like a lot of bulk so a few layers with a shell keeps me warm on the coldest days.

mister moose said:

Jacket person.

I ski hard, and develop a lot of heat. I like to be able to unzip the jacket and dump heat at the bottom of a run if I need to. With a shell and layers, you need all the layers to have zips, and play with all the zips to dump the heat. I like the single zip.

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I too, am an insulated jacket person, for that very reason.

One single zip to dump heat at the bottom of the run, priceless!

Generally, I don't layer all that much. With that ability to dump heat, I can wear an insulated jacket "up" to 40 degrees! Just keep the pit zip open all the time. Zip up and unzip the front zipper when it gets too hot or too cold. No need to fuss about getting the right layering for the day's temperature. No change needed from morning to afternoon when the weather changes.

In spring, I switch to a el cheapo light, uninsulated, non-waterproof shell. Then, it's t-shirt time!

deadheadskier said:

The Flylow shell I bought off of benwhiteskis here for $100 is the best ski jacket I've ever owned. Really lucked out. Its just a polyester prototype and IIRC the jacket he used when he skied the 48 NH 4k footers in a season.

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I bought the same one. It is my go to shell. I have used in 30 degree rain and stayed dry all day. It also has some stretch built into it. We lucked out.

I use a shell. If it's under 0f or windy, I'll wear a down puffy jacket underneath.
fwiw-compare the gore tex shell fabrics against the other proprietary ones by the number of layers. Gore Tex pro is a 3 layer (3L) fabric, while gore Tex active is 2l or 2.5. Most brands have gore Tex and they're own equivalents, the latter generally being cheaper.