Vermont Auditor: Should the State Re-Evaluate Ski Area Leases?

thetrailboss · Jan 20, 2015

http://www.wcax.com/story/27893695/should-vt-collect-more-money-from-ski-resorts

Hoffer thinks that the leases need to be re-examined because most areas make revenue off of more than just ticket sales. As folks know, these leases typically take a percentage of each lift ticket sold as the lease payment.

Looks like ticket prices might go up if the state decides to demand more money from ski areas that lease State land.

jimmywilson69 · Jan 20, 2015

What the hell is Vermont spending all of this money on?? By all accounts from people who live there it is a heavily taxed state already...

thetrailboss · Jan 20, 2015

jimmywilson69 said:
What the hell is Vermont spending all of this money on?? By all accounts from people who live there it is a heavily taxed state already...

The problem is that folks want a lot of state services; but there are, demographically, fewer and fewer people who can "pay" into the system while there are more people who are "taking" from the system. So instead of reevaluating things, the state is just continuing on.....

River19 · Jan 20, 2015

thetrailboss said:
The problem is that folks want a lot of state services; but there are, demographically, fewer and fewer people who can "pay" into the system while there are more people who are "taking" from the system. So instead of reevaluating things, the state is just continuing on.....

When the number of people in the cart outnumber the people pulling the cart.....things get a little wonky.

VTKilarney · Jan 20, 2015

So this is what happens when your legislature has to bridge a $100 million budget gap in a state with only 626,000 people. That's roughly $160 needed to be raised for every man, woman, and child who lives in the state.

thetrailboss · Jan 20, 2015

River19 said:
When the number of people in the cart outnumber the people pulling the cart.....things get a little wonky.

Bingo!

I just think it could hurt a fragile ski industry...fragile in so many different ways...

joshua segal · Jan 20, 2015

jimmywilson69 said:
What the hell is Vermont spending all of this money on?? By all accounts from people who live there it is a heavily taxed state already...

Keep in mind that both the Governor and one of their Senators are neither Republican nor Democrat, but Socialist. The Vermonters voted for this and which would lead me to believe that a majority of them want it. The out-of-staters are the ones who are complaining!

drjeff · Jan 20, 2015

joshua segal said:
Keep in mind that both the Governor and one of their Senators are neither Republican nor Democrat, but Socialist. The Vermonters voted for this and which would lead me to believe that a majority of them want it. The out-of-staters are the ones who are complaining!

Yup, my non homesteader taxes on my place in VT, which has it's own plowing and trash services that my association dues pay for, give me no direct political say in how the $$ I pay in state and local taxes in VT gets spent.

VT should be looking for ways to AUGMENT the ski industry, not potentially hurt it, since it such a key economic driver for the state and it's revenue both directly through things like lift tickets and indirectly too via taxes on 2nd homes, etc. Lot's of people in that cart, and fewer and fewer people pulling it for sure.

Had the Vermont Care glorified single payer medical system gone through, the tax spike would of been large to pay for it, and so many people would of found themselves actively looking for a new healthcare provider as the proposed reimbursement rates to healthcare providers being floated around were down right laughable, to the point where they likely would of been significantly below the overhead that most providers have

VTKilarney · Jan 20, 2015

joshua segal said:
Keep in mind that both the Governor and one of their Senators are neither Republican nor Democrat, but Socialist. The Vermonters voted for this and which would lead me to believe that a majority of them want it. The out-of-staters are the ones who are complaining!

The governor is a Democrat.

Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone

thetrailboss · Jan 20, 2015

joshua segal said:
Keep in mind that both the Governor and one of their Senators are neither Republican nor Democrat, but Socialist. The Vermonters voted for this and which would lead me to believe that a majority of them want it. The out-of-staters are the ones who are complaining!

That last part is not true. I know plenty of natives that are not happy. Me being one of them who voted with his feet. And, FWIW, a majority of those that voted in the last General Election voted AGAINST Shumlin as Governor. That says something.

from_the_NEK · Jan 20, 2015

thetrailboss said:
That last part is not true. I know plenty of natives that are not happy. Me being one of them who voted with his feet. And, FWIW, a majority of those that voted in the last General Election voted AGAINST Shumlin as Governor. That says something.

To be clear that majority was divided among a couple candidates. This state is walking a fine line with its financial practices.

joshua segal · Jan 20, 2015

drjeff said:
Yup, my non homesteader taxes on my place in VT, which has it's own plowing and trash services that my association dues pay for, give me no direct political say in how the $$ I pay in state and local taxes in VT gets spent.

...

I feel your pain. For 20+ years I paid income tax in MA even though I lived in NH. Both your example and mine are classic cases of taxation without representation.

To VTKilarney: Thanks for the correction on the governor.

And to "thetrailboss": I'm not naïve enough to believe that no Vermonters are complaining, but at the ballot box, a majority is considered to be a consensus of the voters by our system of government.

thetrailboss · Jan 20, 2015

joshua segal said:
And to "thetrailboss": I'm not naïve enough to believe that no Vermonters are complaining, but at the ballot box, a majority is considered to be a consensus of the voters by our system of government.

The majority DID NOT vote for Shumlin.

And your point was that the only people complaining were non-residents/out of staters. That's not accurate.

deadheadskier · Jan 20, 2015

I don't have an issue with MA, ME, VT etc., charging income tax to NH residents that work there. Don't want yo pay those taxes? Don't work there. I also feel that one should only get to vote where they establish residency. Property ownership shouldn't equal voting rights. It is not taxation without representation. You forfeit representation by not establishing residency. That's the individuals choice.

Cannonball · Jan 20, 2015

drjeff said:
Yup, my non homesteader taxes on my place in VT, which has it's own plowing and trash services that my association dues pay for, give me no direct political say in how the $$ I pay in state and local taxes in VT gets spent.

As someone who owns homes in 2 different states I completely feel your perspective. But, there are actually some very good reasons for that. Some middle ground can hopefully be found.

BenedictGomez · Jan 20, 2015

jimmywilson69 said:
What the hell is Vermont spending all of this money on??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

joshua segal · Jan 20, 2015

thetrailboss said:
The majority DID NOT vote for Shumlin.

And your point was that the only people complaining were non-residents/out of staters. That's not accurate.

Wow! I checked the popular vote numbers and you are correct: Shumlin had a small plurality - not a majority. It just shows how badly the Dems were blitzed in 2014 when a Republican can do that well in a state as blue as VT.

I find it interesting that "deadheadskier" sees taxing property of an out-of-stater as taxation without representation, but that taxing the income of an out-of-stater is not taxation without representation. No explanation needed "deadheadskier". One of Ralph Waldo Emerson's most quoted lines is taken out of context and reads '... consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

thetrailboss · Jan 20, 2015

joshua segal said:
Wow! I checked the popular vote numbers and you are correct: Shumlin had a small plurality - not a majority. It just shows how badly the Dems were blitzed in 2014 when a Republican can do that well in a state as blue as VT.

I find it interesting that "deadheadskier" sees taxing property of an out-of-stater as taxation without representation, but that taxing the income of an out-of-stater is not taxation without representation. No explanation needed "deadheadskier". One of Ralph Waldo Emerson's most quoted lines is taken out of context and reads '... consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

Yeah it was very surprising indeed.

deadheadskier · Jan 20, 2015

Joshua, my beliefs are perfectly consistent. You deserve representation where you are a resident. I pay sales tax, rooms and meals taxes, gas tax and on and on when I consume those items in VT, MA or anywhere else outside of my home state of NH. Would anyone argue they deserve representation in those states for paying those taxes? Of course not. Why should paying property or income tax be any different?

bdfreetuna · Jan 20, 2015

Communists/socialists are too busy scolding people for not using politically correct language, feeling guilty for being born on this planet, and practicing militant atheism to find time for skiing. Figures.

Vermont Auditor: Should the State Re-Evaluate Ski Area Leases?

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