nyc chick looking to share ride up to killington this weekend

MadMadWorld said:

Gender roles are not slowly slowly going away. They are pretty much long gone. I would say the only areas they still exist are in the military and jobs that involve physical labor. My daughter will know that she can be anything she wants when she grows up (hell we just had a Doc Mcstuffins themed birthday). For you to assume how I raise my daughter is presumptive considering you don't know me. My mom always worked full time as a kid and worked her way up from a nurse to running a department at Children's Hospital. Men with a lot more letters and credentials next to their name report to her. I have deep respect for that.

You have corrupted the term feminism to mean something different then the definition you gave. You seem to carry a chip on your shoulder and expect employers and others to pay for the decisions that were made before our time. I have worked in IS in the past and now do other work in technology but when I was involved in the hiring process at my previous employer we always enjoyed getting women applicants. They always had more attention to detail and were better at analyzing large problems and projects. But I'm sure you will somehow take that as an attack or insult.

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Less than 25% of technology jobs are held by women. Women make around 80 cents to a mans dollar for the same work. Women hold just over 5% of fortune 500 CEO positions. How is that fair? How are gender roles gone? Gender equality doesn't exist.

http://m.theatlantic.com/technology...-more-women-in-tech-the-data-prove-it/280964/

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_women_CEOs_of_Fortune_500_companies

So what's your solution? Companies should just give women those jobs to even things out? How can you be so sure that other factors are not involved, and that it's just about gender? If a woman is the best person for the job, she will get it, especially when it comes to big business. No board of directors is going to make a man CEO when they have a woman that will make them more money.

I personally think that's why more women aren't CEOs. CEOs are generally heartless sociopaths that care very little for people. Women, especially mothers, tend to be more caring and compassionate. Those things are not conducive to making money, hence no CEO job for you.

MadMadWorld said:

Gender roles are not slowly slowly going away. They are pretty much long gone. I would say the only areas they still exist are in the military and jobs that involve physical labor. My daughter will know that she can be anything she wants when she grows up (hell we just had a Doc Mcstuffins themed birthday). For you to assume how I raise my daughter is presumptive considering you don't know me. My mom always worked full time as a kid and worked her way up from a nurse to running a department at Children's Hospital. Men with a lot more letters and credentials next to their name report to her. I have deep respect for that.

You have corrupted the term feminism to mean something different then the definition you gave. You seem to carry a chip on your shoulder and expect employers and others to pay for the decisions that were made before our time. I have worked in IS in the past and now do other work in technology but when I was involved in the hiring process at my previous employer we always enjoyed getting women applicants. They always had more attention to detail and were better at analyzing large problems and projects. But I'm sure you will somehow take that as an attack or insult.

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They probably hire women because they only have to pay $.79 on the dollar for all that hard work :evil:

I've been a FT worker during 3 pregnancies and with 3 kids. Your mother probably had to work 2x as hard as her male counterparts to get where she is - and in the healthcare arena - there ARE more leadership roles for women, then say engineering, high tech. I never went the leadership route because I hate babysitting adults and don't want to turn my life over to a corporation. So I'm a lifetime workerbee, who is quite observant and bright - and over my 20+ years in my field can see the men being promoted much easier with less qualifications and hard work. I'm just saying, it's not all rosy. Also...to get high up in any field takes long hours, often much travel...and tradition/genetics...whatever you want to call it usually means it's the wife who handles the home stuff while the husband works insane hours (and it's what corporate management almost expects). When a working mother is on the same path - generally she does not have the support at home that the male counterparts have (SAHD)...so it's much more difficult to achieve...and then statistics show when they get there - they are paid alot less than the males. I don't call this equality at all. Personally...I couldn't give up the amount of hours need to be in leadership, VP, C-level jobs b/c I would never give up that family time...but for those women that do - it's a big sacrifice (for less $, remember ). Luckily today's worklife/balance is easier on working mothers (as I sit in my LR in front of woodstove working from home ) - but until we are paid equal for the same work...and maybe given a little more "slack" if we want to mother AND go up the leadership path (because..ultimately good mothering leads to a better generation of kids)...we still have a long way to go.

FYI folks my data was a joke. I don't believe the software even asks about gender when signing up. However if someone wants to go through the member list and take a crack at guessing gender or conducting a survey have it.

http://forums.alpinezone.com/member.php/15406-Sweeney

Male or female?

SkiFanE said:

They probably hire women because they only have to pay $.79 on the dollar for all that hard work :evil:

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Here in NYC women apparently earn $1.02 for ever $1.00 a man earns. I would recommend coming here, but it's a pretty awful place to live, especially if you want to ski more than two days a season.

C-Rex said:

I think men just post more because we aren't busy typing other shit. Our secretaries do it, and that's why they aren't posting. :razz:

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Biggest laugh of the thread goes TO: C-Rex. Wickedly funny.......

SkiFanE said:

Also...to get high up in any field takes long hours, often much travel...and tradition/genetics...whatever you want to call it usually means it's the wife who handles the home stuff while the husband works insane hours (and it's what corporate management almost expects). When a working mother is on the same path - generally she does not have the support at home that the male counterparts have (SAHD)...so it's much more difficult to achieve...and then statistics show when they get there - they are paid alot less than the males. I don't call this equality at all. Personally...I couldn't give up the amount of hours need to be in leadership, VP, C-level jobs b/c I would never give up that family time...but for those women that do - it's a big sacrifice

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We don't see eye to eye on most of what you said but this a great point that I am with you 100%. But to change that you also have to change the stereotype of men being the breadwinner and not being the primary caregiver. I am lucky to have paternity leave but most employers do not offer it. I think women need to look at the big picture if they want to see this kind of change.

Cannonball said:

This reflects all of the wives and girlfriends who sign up here to see what the F their husbands can possibly be spending so much time on the computer for.

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That I believe

MadMadWorld said:

We don't see eye to eye on most of what you said but this a great point that I am with you 100%. But to change that you also have to change the stereotype of men being the breadwinner and not being the primary caregiver. I am lucky to have paternity leave but most employers do not offer it. I think women need to look at the big picture if they want to see this kind of change.

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Paternity leave?! What? How about Maternity leave?! I got not one penny from my companies in Maternity leave. I used accrued vacation and sick time, and had Short Term Disability for 8 weeks (cut to 6 for third kid b/c by then they no longer thought c-sections required 2 extra weeks of recovery time). I don't know what cave you live in - but it's a rare company in the USA that gives anything to women in maternity. And the "leave" is granted by FMLA-law...up to 12 weeks. In Europe, women get 6-12 months full pay (varies by country)...but they also have insane taxes - I think it's Netherlands that gives 2 years paid leave, but taxes are 70% of income. Even I am not sure I'd rather have that...

I'm as much into equality as anyone...but I also can't ignore genetics and nurturing and how men and women differ. There are always exceptions...but I have NEVER heard a man say "I can't go back to work...I can' imagine leaving my little boo-boo all day...".... why? All being equal...why don't men offer to stay home and let the women work? Really...it rarely happens. Maybe if you rub your breasts and start oohing your newborn, you'll start lactating to make it easier for these new mothers returning to work...lol. Just saying as much as a feminist as I am - I recognize there are difference between the genders in parenting roles - some genetic, some from society.

MadMadWorld said:

We don't see eye to eye on most of what you said but this a great point that I am with you 100%. But to change that you also have to change the stereotype of men being the breadwinner and not being the primary caregiver. I am lucky to have paternity leave but most employers do not offer it. I think women need to look at the big picture if they want to see this kind of change.

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Also - maternity vs. paternity... carry and nurture human life for 9 months...and as Joan Rivers used to say, then "push a roast beef through your nose"...and women still aren't entitled to much from companies.

SkiFanE said:

Personally...I couldn't give up the amount of hours need to be in leadership, VP, C-level jobs b/c I would never give up that family time...

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That's likely why I'm a senior worker bee at age 50...I do what I can to keep to a 40 hour work week. I'll put in the extra hours when needed but they aren't the norm. Know the last thing I will regret when I die is that I didn't work enough hours...

My wife could never do the SAHM thing so our kids were in daycare from infancy. Sure it would have been better for them to be at home with a parent but not if the parent was going crazy...

Meh. My wife is due middle of March. I told her she can take a week off then back to work.

SkiFanE said:

Paternity leave?! What? How about Maternity leave?! I got not one penny from my companies in Maternity leave. I used accrued vacation and sick time, and had Short Term Disability for 8 weeks (cut to 6 for third kid b/c by then they no longer thought c-sections required 2 extra weeks of recovery time). I don't know what cave you live in - but it's a rare company in the USA that gives anything to women in maternity. And the "leave" is granted by FMLA-law...up to 12 weeks. In Europe, women get 6-12 months full pay (varies by country)...but they also have insane taxes - I think it's Netherlands that gives 2 years paid leave, but taxes are 70% of income. Even I am not sure I'd rather have that...

I'm as much into equality as anyone...but I also can't ignore genetics and nurturing and how men and women differ. There are always exceptions...but I have NEVER heard a man say "I can't go back to work...I can' imagine leaving my little boo-boo all day...".... why? All being equal...why don't men offer to stay home and let the women work? Really...it rarely happens. Maybe if you rub your breasts and start oohing your newborn, you'll start lactating to make it easier for these new mothers returning to work...lol. Just saying as much as a feminist as I am - I recognize there are difference between the genders in parenting roles - some genetic, some from society.

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I really can't deal with you guys. I came to your defense to point out the fact that women can't move up the corporate ladder because of having kids and being the primary caregiver. So you basically want lower standards not for woman but women with kids when it comes to moving the corporate ladder. Does that just perpetuate the stereotype that you are not equal to men and need to be given special treatment?? My point is that if you want their to be a balance of power then men should be offered the same benefits. So that a couple can decide whether the mother or the father is the primary caregiver.

It's so funny how you all cry for equality yet you take every opportunity to point out the differences between men and women. So nurturing is not learned and I couldn't possibly do a better job than my wife? When my daughter is sick she calls for me. My wife has her own business and can't afford to take time off so I'm the one that takes time off or works from home. When he is scared or hurts herself it's dad.

You two use way more stereotypes than any of the guys in this thread by far.

C-Rex said:

That said, perhaps many employers simply prefer to work with men. Men generally find it easier to resolve conflict and work in teams with other men. I've heard women say the same thing. That they don't get along well with other women and prefer to work or hang out with men. My point is, maybe it's not some conspiracy to keep women down.

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And in this very thread. By a woman.

Higgl said:

Women make around 80 cents to a mans dollar for the same work.

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This has been disproven time and time and time and time again, by multiple schools of economic theory.

It is complete and utter BS when controlled for life choices, behavioral activity, and satisficing decisions.

Women, "only make 80% of what American men make", is as disproven as the geocentric earth hypothesis or bloodletting, and the only reason it's believed by the masses is because it is repeatedly "put out there" every election by politicians of one particular political party in an intentional effort to inflame women for their votes (which sadly works), because economics is not taught in US public schools. [/end rant]

SkiFanE said:

Paternity leave?! What?........... In Europe, women get 6-12 months full pay (varies by country)...but they also have insane taxes

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Some of those insane European countries have recently started paid paternity leave as well, which is a small example of why their economies are going to crap. On the bright side, however, I've been short the € for over 4 years now, and it's finally starting to really pay off.

MadMadWorld said:

I really can't deal with you guys. I came to your defense to point out the fact that women can't move up the corporate ladder because of having kids and being the primary caregiver. So you basically want lower standards not for woman but women with kids when it comes to moving the corporate ladder. Does that just perpetuate the stereotype that you are not equal to men and need to be given special treatment?? My point is that if you want their to be a balance of power then men should be offered the same benefits. So that a couple can decide whether the mother or the father is the primary caregiver.

It's so funny how you all cry for equality yet you take every opportunity to point out the differences between men and women. So nurturing is not learned and I couldn't possibly do a better job than my wife? When my daughter is sick she calls for me. My wife has her own business and can't afford to take time off so I'm the one that takes time off or works from home. When he is scared or hurts herself it's dad.

You two use way more stereotypes than any of the guys in this thread by far.

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"IN general"...there are always exceptions. What are stats for two family households with women making more than men? Few...but they are there. I completely stand by my arguments that woman and men are different...but does that mean we have to be unequal? To be equal we must do the same/be the same as men? We must work as hard as men are willing to move up the ladder? MAYBE, just MAYBE if the corporate world was different - for men and women...it would be better off for the equal working. IE - Europe...they get tons of vacations, don't have such long work days...so maybe it'd be easier for men to slow down too. But as long as the mentality is that you need to work your ass off, travel and hand over your life to a company to succeed - working mothers will never succeed. Because...like I said...there ARE differences between the genders, and I don't know why you think we have to be exactly the same to have equality - in my opinion, that's wrong...or else it's called "special treatment" b/c we can't live up to corporate ideals that are set for men (who have stay at home wives). I am unique in that when I did do the SAHM gig for 18mos...I was not happy...really wanted to get out of the house - but neither do I want to work 60 hour work weeks.

hammer said:

That's likely why I'm a senior worker bee at age 50...I do what I can to keep to a 40 hour work week. I'll put in the extra hours when needed but they aren't the norm. Know the last thing I will regret when I die is that I didn't work enough hours...

My wife could never do the SAHM thing so our kids were in daycare from infancy. Sure it would have been better for them to be at home with a parent but not if the parent was going crazy...

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Now that my oldest is in college - I look back at that time, and daycare...when other mothers say "I don't want to strangers to raise my children" - I think "it didn't matter"! Really...compared to her peers, it's not like any are better/worse b/c their parents stay home or work. I am far from a helicopter parent, I had no time, really... it shows, my kids are so independent compared to their peers. Yeah..I went crazy at home...my husband was delighted I went back to work haha

SkiFanE said:

IE - Europe...they get tons of vacations, don't have such long work days...so maybe it'd be easier for men to slow down too.

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This applies to the rank and file. European executives work (almost) as much as their American (and Asian) counterparts (albeit for less money (both before and after taxes)). Running a successful business requires tremendous sacrifices from both men and women and I don't see this changing just because it would be nice to have a 9-5 job that pays well too.

deadheadskier said:

Meh. My wife is due middle of March. I told her she can take a week off then back to work.

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March 13 is our due date. I get 2 weeks paternity and then 1 week vacation. The wife gets 12 weeks maternity.

DoublePlanker said:

March 13 is our due date. I get 2 weeks paternity and then 1 week vacation. The wife gets 12 weeks maternity.

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I get 2 days and the wife gets a week then she's back to work. I'm overriding her company's 12 week policy. I need to be able to afford next year's season pass and that's not happening with her staying at home sitting on her ass.

Women only want equality when it benefits them. Same pay, same opportunities? Sure, you'll take that. Pay for dinner and the movie, Eff that. Want to get married? Gotta buy the woman a shiny expensive rock. Getting divorced? If you have a dick get ready to get screwed. Why, when there's a fire, do the women get to leave first and I gotta stand there like I'm not flammable? (Anyone listen to Bill Burr? LOL)

My big problem with all this came from my time in the Air Force. PT tests: Women have lower standards than men. Why? I understand there are biological differences but that doesn't effect how fast you run 2 miles. And sure, you can't lift as much as a guy. Fine. But push-up's, pull-ups, and sit-ups are all done with your own body weight and should be equal. Why should I have to share a fox hole with a woman? Is a 5'2", 130lb girl going to be able to carry (or even drag) a 6'2", 200lb guy with 40 lbs of gear on herself and him? Probably not. I'm all or equality, but equal is equal. No grading on a curve. If it's harder because of biological differences, too bad. Same with anything else in life. Don't ask for special treatment or to change the rules of the game if you really want to be "equal". That being said, I've also served with some badass women that would never accept a boost. They graded themselves by men's standards even if the military didn't. And they're tear a new one into any girl who came around them making their gender look bad. Respect is always earned. If it's given freely, it's hollow and worthless.

While I certainly don't think that women should be pigeon-holed into gender roles, I do think that some roles exist because thousands of years of evolution have guided us into them. I've seen some marriages that work wonderfully because either side have accepted certain roles. It's foolish to look at a role as a bad thing just because it's "expected".