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Backcountry/Sidecountry Pruning: OK or Not?

Is pruning in the backcountry or sidecountry a good thing?

  • Yes, and I do it myself.

    Votes: 11 25.0%
  • Yes, but if done with permission and done right.

    Votes: 20 45.5%
  • Neutral.

    Votes: 4 9.1%
  • No, not without permission of the landowner.

    Votes: 3 6.8%
  • No.

    Votes: 6 13.6%
  • Other (elaborate)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    44

thetrailboss

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The Backcountry Ski Resources has gone into a tangent in which folks are talking about their pruning efforts in the sidecountry. We've talked a little about this off and on in the past, but I am wondering if folks think that these efforts are OK, especially on someone else's private land or Forest Service land.

My initial thoughts a few years back was that if done in modest amounts and done correctly there was no issue. But these idiots from 2007 as well as some other damage I have seen in the sidecountry have made me rethink this position.

I enjoy treeskiing as much as the next guy, especially when someone has done some work to clear out the crap, but the environmental impacts seem to outweigh any benefit. That and the fact that some of these "operations" are not sanctioned. I know that folks say, "it is just me and I know what I am doing", but that all adds up.

So I personally don't favor it. If you can't hack it as it is, don't ski it.
 

deadheadskier

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. If you can't hack it as it is, don't ski it.

So basically you are in favor of mountain managed glades only in the east.

There's hardly such a thing as "natural" glades in the East. Even the vast majority of off map tree skiing areas in the hardwood forests of Northern VT have had some work done.

I personally don't have an issue with folks thinning out side country areas. The "gash" on Big Jay is the rarest of exceptions from what I see. And they were punished accordingly. Most off map glading is pretty subtle and really has little to no negative environmental impact. There's probably 1000X greater acreage of vacant strip malls in New England causing far greater issues than skier pruned forest. Environmentally it is would rate a .2 on a scale of 100......if that.
 

deadheadskier

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Most of Cannon glades are locally grown.

Right. The stuff on the map was once off the map and mountain management had very little to do with it other than take advantage of a marketing opportunity.

The same is true at many eastern ski areas. Nice labor savings for the mountains.
 

Puck it

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Right. The stuff on the map was once off the map and mountain management had very little to do with it other than take advantage of a marketing opportunity.

The same is true at many eastern ski areas. Nice labor savings for the mountains.
I hope the others stay off the map but they probably won't.
 

thetrailboss

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So basically you are in favor of mountain managed glades only in the east.

There's hardly such a thing as "natural" glades in the East. Even the vast majority of off map tree skiing areas in the hardwood forests of Northern VT have had some work done.

Yes. And west. Good point that some glades were made by others and adopted by resorts. But many, such as Jay, Burke, and Sugarbush did develop their own.
 

JimG.

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I really don't care and voted neutral. Happy to ski natural glades or glades cleared by others.

I guess a good rule of thumb is it's OK to prune as long as you don't use a chainsaw.
 

deadheadskier

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Yes. And west. Good point that some glades were made by others and adopted by resorts. But many, such as Jay, Burke, and Sugarbush did develop their own.

Plenty of "off map" skier developed glades at those areas as well and I doubt that everything on map was fully resort developed.
 

HowieT2

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I'd never be so bold as to prune my own run, but I have done some maintenance on existing glades. don't see anything wrong with cleaning up some blowdown and small branches.
 

dlague

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The Backcountry Ski Resources has gone into a tangent in which folks are talking about their pruning efforts in the sidecountry. We've talked a little about this off and on in the past, but I am wondering if folks think that these efforts are OK, especially on someone else's private land or Forest Service land.

My initial thoughts a few years back was that if done in modest amounts and done correctly there was no issue. But these idiots from 2007 as well as some other damage I have seen in the sidecountry have made me rethink this position.

I enjoy treeskiing as much as the next guy, especially when someone has done some work to clear out the crap, but the environmental impacts seem to outweigh any benefit. That and the fact that some of these "operations" are not sanctioned. I know that folks say, "it is just me and I know what I am doing", but that all adds up.

So I personally don't favor it. If you can't hack it as it is, don't ski it.

I think it is not big deal. Behind my house, they were doing selective cutting of older pines over acres and acres of farm land and they destroyed the place. A single person cutting/pruning a path is not even noticeable and personally I do not care. The guys that did it on Big Jay got greedy!
 

skiur

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I see absolutely nothing wrong with clearing out tree runs as long as you have the permission of the land owner. Whether that be a private land owner or government land, without permission you are breaking the law.
 

Cannonball

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The Backcountry Ski Resources has gone into a tangent in which folks are talking about their pruning efforts in the sidecountry. We've talked a little about this off and on in the past, but I am wondering if folks think that these efforts are OK, especially on someone else's private land or Forest Service land.

My initial thoughts a few years back was that if done in modest amounts and done correctly there was no issue. But these idiots from 2007 as well as some other damage I have seen in the sidecountry have made me rethink this position.

I enjoy treeskiing as much as the next guy, especially when someone has done some work to clear out the crap, but the environmental impacts seem to outweigh any benefit. That and the fact that some of these "operations" are not sanctioned. I know that folks say, "it is just me and I know what I am doing", but that all adds up.

So I personally don't favor it. If you can't hack it as it is, don't ski it.

I think the point you are missing is that you are saying "pruning" but you are describing "cutting". Pruning involves removal of small dead branches, undergrowth, etc. It's pretty hard to find the environmental damage in pruning. In fact, if we didn't have such effective fire control programs most of these wouldn't even need to be pruned. The cutting you are describing (whole trees and other large items) results in erosion, slope instability, etc. and has an obvious impact.

Ever hiked in the woods? Ever come across a branch hanging in the trail? Did you avoid moving/breaking/pruning it?
 

crank

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I think a lot of the side country stuff at Jay was logged at one time.
 

SkiingInABlueDream

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"Is pruning in the backcountry or sidecountry a good thing?"

My answer is, it depends on for whom or what might it be "good".
I think it's good for skiers who want to ski back- or sidecountry. More space = skiers spread out more = better chance of finding a fresh line.
That said I think it's bad for the health of the forest. Jay Peak for example is thinned pretty much boundary to boundary. Would you describe any acre there as forest? More pruning yields less forest. Eventually there's none left. That's bad for the forest.

So... <shrug>.
I do appreciate the issue and the efforts of people who try to balance sustainability with "development", be it someone pruning their own stash or a resort expanding its boundary.
 

thetrailboss

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I think the point you are missing is that you are saying "pruning" but you are describing "cutting". Pruning involves removal of small dead branches, undergrowth, etc. It's pretty hard to find the environmental damage in pruning. In fact, if we didn't have such effective fire control programs most of these wouldn't even need to be pruned. The cutting you are describing (whole trees and other large items) results in erosion, slope instability, etc. and has an obvious impact.

Ever hiked in the woods? Ever come across a branch hanging in the trail? Did you avoid moving/breaking/pruning it?

I'm talking about both cutting and trimming. So you don't cut small scrub? You only limb trees?
 
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