Ski Resort Managers Rejoice!

My family benefited from the system since my father was a disabled vet. The family received VA benefits and my mother did not work. We lived in upstate NY and lived in subsidized housing until I was 5. All four of us went to college on VA benefits without this we would never have gone. All four of us have degrees and have/had great jobs. So we are products of the system. My father and mother pushed us to do better. So if someone has the drive and the means then they can do anything in this country. I don't want to hear the crying that I can't get a well paying job. Get off the fuckin' couch and stop playing xBox. Do something about!!!!!! I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes and my wife and I do, I don't want to pay for free loaders that abuse my hard earned money.

Puck it said:

My family benefited from the system since my father was a disabled vet. The family received VA benefits and my mother did not work. We lived in upstate NY and lived in subsidized housing until I was 5. All four of us went to college on VA benefits without this we would never have gone. All four of us have degrees and have/had great jobs. So we are products of the system. My father and mother pushed us to do better. So if someone has the drive and the means then they can do anything in this country. I don't want to hear the crying that I can't get a well paying job. Get off the fuckin' couch and stop playing xBox. Do something about!!!!!! I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes and my wife and I do, I don't want to pay for free loaders that abuse my hard earned money.

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Exactly, and there are, unfortunately, a large number of free loaders in the system. I think drug testing should be mandatory for those receiving benefits for instance. There's a lot that can be done to improve the system that's in place, but I don't think that the current system is fundamentally unfair to the wealthy or wealthier percentage of wage earners in the country.

VTKilarney said:

Not all rich people took a risk.


.

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deadheadskier said:

+1

And "burger flipper" isn't a profession that should be belittled either. That sort of white collar arrogance doesn't exist in much of the developed world outside of the US.

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True,


But most did! I'm guessing that there are far more "rich" people who became "rich" because of risks they took than "rich" people who got that way via things such being lucky enough to have been born to parents, or into a family who set up some cushy trust funds for them to pass their $$ too..... Heck, people get struck by lightning regularly, but it's not a very large number of people, even if they almost always end up as the topic of a prominently reported news story

Puck it said:

My family benefited from the system since my father was a disabled vet. The family received VA benefits and my mother did not work. We lived in upstate NY and lived in subsidized housing until I was 5. All four of us went to college on VA benefits without this we would never have gone. All four of us have degrees and have/had great jobs. So we are products of the system. My father and mother pushed us to do better. So if someone has the drive and the means then they can do anything in this country. I don't want to hear the crying that I can't get a well paying job. Get off the fuckin' couch and stop playing xBox. Do something about!!!!!! I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes and my wife and I do, I don't want to pay for free loaders that abuse my hard earned money.

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It would be a lot easier for many to get a leg up with training and education if the federal government didn't charge interest rates that are 7X the rate they charge banks.

That won't help the uninitiated, but there are plenty of people out there who have simply been priced out of the system.

I went back to school at 36 years old to reinvent myself and change careers. I was in school or clinical internships all day and worked in the evening at a restaurant 30+ hours a week. It was a 70 hour a week commitment for two years. Even with that commitment, I couldn't have done it without my wife having a decent paying job.

I was/am lucky. Many are not.

deadheadskier said:

It would be a lot easier for many to get a leg up with training and education if the federal government didn't charge interest rates that are 7X the rate they charge banks.

That won't help the uninitiated, but there are plenty of people out there who have simply been priced out of the system.

I went back to school at 36 years old to reinvent myself and change careers. I was in school or clinical internships all day and worked in the evening at a restaurant 30+ hours a week. It was a 70 hour a week commitment for two years. Even with that commitment, I couldn't have done it without my wife having a decent paying job.

I was/am lucky. Many are not.

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You did it. People need to stop the poor pitiful me crap. Pick yourself and do something about it. Stop expecting others to pay for your meager lifestyle and make something of yourself.

The other BIG factor, with many that I see (and this includes students going to school to become one of my future professional colleagues too for sure), is that many people seem to have this unrealistic view, that the second they get such and such a job, or enter such and such a profession, that they should immediately be able to have the exact same lifestyle that someone who has been in that line of work, and is viewed as "successful" has. Very often that same "successful" person DIDN'T acquire all they currently have immediately upon getting that job, but slowly, over years to even decades, with continued work and effort to improve themselves, acquired some of what they have now, that others look upon with envy as a sign of "success" - the "instant gratification" factor is a BIG issue for many people

No argument here on that

drjeff said:

The other BIG factor, with many that I see (and this includes students going to school to become one of my future professional colleagues too for sure), is that many people seem to have this unrealistic view, that the second they get such and such a job, or enter such and such a profession, that they should immediately be able to have the exact same lifestyle that someone who has been in that line of work, and is viewed as "successful" has. Very often that same "successful" person DIDN'T acquire all they currently have immediately upon getting that job, but slowly, over years to even decades, with continued work and effort to improve themselves, acquired some of what they have now, that others look upon with envy as a sign of "success" - the "instant gratification" factor is a BIG issue for many people

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It's called paying dues & it needs to be done no matter what industry/vocation you're in. Too many today are either unable or unwilling to do it.

One problem that is going to get worse over the years is the inability of people to retire. The day of the defined benefit pension is gone for all but school teachers and government workers. Most people do not have nearly enough in retirement savings, which means that they are going to stay in the workforce longer. This means that positions will not open up as often as they used to for younger people to move up the career ladder.

The bottom line is this: The baby boomer generation is the first generation in a LONG time to leave this country in worse shape than they found it.

deadheadskier said:

Yup, you're correct. 10 years ago when the unemployment number was in the 5s, that was the real number. But now that it's in the 5s today, the number is fake because you don't like who's in office.

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He is correct.

And 10 years ago the specific unemployment number he's referring to was BS too. The unemployment number has been BS for precisely 21 years now.

This is the reason why, as soon as the "headline number" which is the number that gets parroted on television, is released, professionals pour through the BLS news release to parce out the real data from the BS.

Edd said:

My view is that the expectations of what people deserve is out to lunch these days.

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I think I agree with you if what you're saying is that 40 years ago if you owned a house and 2 cars and were able to take a family vacation to the shore once a year, you thought you "had it good". Wheras nowadays unless you own a McMansion and a summer home, 3 or 4 cars, and can take an annual trip to Paris or Australia etc..., the perception among many is they haven't succeeded. Call it "keeping up with the Jones'" syndrome or what have you, but my belief is people used to be far easier to please.

Jully said:

You got help getting where you are today, and if you didn't you're a part of a super minority. Ever hear of giving back?

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Who provided the "help" you speak of? Beyond family, or perhaps teachers if you take a more self-righteous view. Define help.

Puck it said:

My father and mother pushed us to do better. So if someone has the drive and the means then they can do anything in this country. I don't want to hear the crying that I can't get a well paying job. Get off the fuckin' couch and stop playing xBox. Do something about!!!!!! I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes and my wife and I do, I don't want to pay for free loaders that abuse my hard earned money.

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That's pretty much it right there. But if everyone thought as you did, what would the politicians do to get votes? You dont sound like someone who's going to beg at their feet for scraps.

BenedictGomez said:

Who provided the "help" you speak of? Beyond family, or perhaps teachers if you take a more self-righteous view. Define help.

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What I meant by help was that all of us here have utilized what our federal government either helps pay for, or pays for entirely with its own money. Federal income tax is put into a general tax fund that gets used by congress for a variety of needs, like paying interest on our national debt.

More specifically, I'm sure every one of us here have driven on an interstate... your income tax helps pays for that. I'd qualify that as accepting help from tax dollars. You, or anyone older than you in your direct family used a federally funded or assisted hospital? Probably. Used Google for school or work or anything? Google started as project funded partially through NSF and probably wouldn't gotten going without it. Every gotten a CT scan and had a kidney stone, cancer, or some other deadly health threat diagnosed? CT scans also came out of federal funding. Went to public school? Or did you parents go to public school? Happy with the protection you feel living in the US and our military? We all ski on federal lands that would most likely look a lot different if federal tax revenue had not been spent to protect those lands. Taxes are used to pay for a lot of things as everyone knows.

As Steamboat1 so delightfully pointed out, 4/5s of the income tax comes from the top 20% of earners. So, without 4/5s paying that much, things like our national debt interest, highways, schools, hospitals, NSF funding for medical and other important scientific projects that no one else will fund, etc will not have nearly as much money.

Anyone in the top 20% of earners might not have ever taken a food stamp, but you benefited from the federal government and still benefit from your income tax payments in ways many people don't realize. Part of living in the United States (because our progressive income tax has been around for awhile now) is subscribing to the idea that you give more if you have more. Yes we're capitalist, but the majority of our government's programs have been very popular for the extent of their lifetimes.

PLUS, as I said earlier, post income tax deductions, the top 20% of earners have seen bigger rises in income for over three decades now than any other group of earners in this country! Capitalism is still alive and well! If you are smarter, luckier, work harder, WHATEVER reason floats your boat for why you are successful, you still very much get to see the benefits of that success in a tremendous way! So paying that much tax clearly isn't hurting us. Why do you want to take away money from underfunded programs that help millions of people in this country when you're doing just fine yourself? There are other countries you can move to that don't have the same government style. No one is MAKING you live here and pay taxes

Jully said:

What I meant by help was that all of us here have utilized what our federal government either helps pay for, or pays for entirely with its own money. Federal income tax is put into a general tax fund that gets used by congress for a variety of needs, like paying interest on our national debt.

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Your logic is badly and perversely flawed from the very first sentence.

The Federal Government has NO money of its' own.

The Federal Government only has what it "takes", directly from its' hard-working citizens, and it "takes" far too much.

Only THEN, after the government "takes", can the Federal Government spend, of which it does so much of, that we're now in over $18 TRILLION dollars of debt, and it is highly doubtful that it can be repaid. The debt servicing will only be paid by further "taking" even more money from American citizens.

Just how much money is $18 TRILLION dollars some may ask?

If literally EVERY.........digest that for a moment.........US taxpayer, put $150,000 in a hat, you still wouldnt quite be able to pay it off. This nation is heading towards a positively massive economic crisis which will have global ramifications.

But hey, I do enjoy that Eisenhower highway system you mentioned, so I guess I've been "helped" on my trips to Florida.

BenedictGomez said:

I think I agree with you if what you're saying is that 40 years ago if you owned a house and 2 cars and were able to take a family vacation to the shore once a year, you thought you "had it good". Wheras nowadays unless you own a McMansion and a summer home, 3 or 4 cars, and can take an annual trip to Paris or Australia etc..., the perception among many is they haven't succeeded. Call it "keeping up with the Jones'" syndrome or what have you, but my belief is people used to be far easier to please.

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Not quite what I meant. I'm pointing out that the same basic nuclear family lifestyle is far more expensive to achieve these days. Despite that being the case, many people expect to have it even though it's much more elusive. The McMansion thing is the next level of crazy.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't believe what folks are paying for real estate. It's certainly more of a lifestyle choice vs. an investment decision. I'm speaking generally, here, as there are always exceptions.

BenedictGomez said:

Your logic is badly and perversely flawed from the very first sentence.

The Federal Government has NO money of its' own.

The Federal Government only has what it "takes", directly from its' hard-working citizens, and it "takes" far too much.

Only THEN, after the government "takes", can the Federal Government spend, of which it does so much of, that we're now in over $18 TRILLION dollars of debt, and it is highly doubtful that it can be repaid. The debt servicing will only be paid by further "taking" even more money from American citizens.

Just how much money is $18 TRILLION dollars some may ask?

If literally EVERY.........digest that for a moment.........US taxpayer, put $150,000 in a hat, you still wouldnt quite be able to pay it off. This nation is heading towards a positively massive economic crisis which will have global ramifications.

But hey, I do enjoy that Eisenhower highway system you mentioned, so I guess I've been "helped" on my trips to Florida.

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You do realize the debt doubled under our friend George Bush right? The last time the national debt decreased as a percentage of our national GDP was under Clinton. Then we went to war with Iraq, Afghanistan, and cut taxes to the wealthy and BOOM $10 trillion of debt. Think that should have happened?

I don't want to get into a debt discussion. I don't think it should be there either, but how would you propose paying it down if we have to lower taxes because we're taking too much money from hard working bankers on wall street instead of letting them buy land from here to Chicago to build private fiber optic cables?

Yes a lot of our debt comes from social security, but we also spend an ENORMOUS amount on our military. Do you want to completely axe both?

We have programs in place that millions rely on in this country. You'll never be able to eliminate those programs, at least in the next few decades.

This is the reality of our country today. As I said, if you don't like it, leave. I'm willing to pay more to try and get us back on track.

I never said anything about the federal government OWNING money. Where did you get that from? I said the federal government has a general income tax pool
I talked about taxes the whole time. Taxes are real, hate to break it to you.

All you did was complain and be inflammatory. Come back again with some facts and something substantive about what you would do differently and we can talk.

What do you want to do if you don't want to "take" any more money from hardworking American citizens of any tax bracket? Shut down the government? That worked out real well.

Our country is in trouble, and its as much one party's fault as the other and blame isn't going to get us anywhere. I want to know what you want try DO about it. Not listen to you nit pick my language on the government's supposed possession of money. Use your little financial brain and let's TALK not condescend, come on, you can do it, I believe.

Jully said:

There are other countries you can move to that don't have the same government style. No one is MAKING you live here and pay taxes

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This is a dangerous sentiment to promote. Do you realize that the number of people who are renouncing US citizenship has been increasing steadily and, recently, exponentially? Are you aware that most of these individuals do so to avoid US taxes (like many US corporations) and that many have fundamental disagreements with government policies? Are you aware most are high income earners?

Sure, the number is only in the thousands right now. Just wait. As more leave and those that remain are called on to pony up more taxes the trickle will become an exodus.

I've heard some high and mighty comments to the effect "good riddance" to those who renounce. Good luck to those of us who will remain. Talk about choking the golden goose to death!

Jully said:

Yes a lot of our debt comes from social security, but we also spend an ENORMOUS amount on our military. Do you want to completely axe both?

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Perhaps one of the 40,000 servicemen who are about to be laid off would like to discuss that.

The country will deal with the national debt the same way that it always has. It will inflate the currency until it diminishes as a percentage of GDP. That is how we paid back the debt from World War II which was even higher. Greece can't do that since their currency is not national and that is their problem.

The financial problem the government isn't talking about is the student loan crisis. The boomers have systematically been reducing funding of public higher education. At the same time college has become all but a requirement to have a career. That has driven up the cost of college to unprecedented levels.

My wife and I "did the right thing" by going to school. We both have graduate degrees and jobs that on paper pay well. Our biggest problem that our student loan debt is significantly higher than our mortgage, has more than double the interest rate, and is not tax deductible. It will take us decades to pay it off if we ever do. That leaves little free cash at the end of the day.

The student loan debt bubble is already having big impacts in the real estate market and it will get worse. As boomers want to dump their McMansions in the suburbs there will be no avoiding the fact that there will not be enough people around to buy them at the price they expect. There are less Millenials to begin with. That coupled with the crushing student loan debt that Millenials face will prevent them from getting the credit for the big mortgage.


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JimG. said:

This is a dangerous sentiment to promote. Do you realize that the number of people who are renouncing US citizenship has been increasing steadily and, recently, exponentially? Are you aware that most of these individuals do so to avoid US taxes (like many US corporations) and that many have fundamental disagreements with government policies? Are you aware most are high income earners?

Sure, the number is only in the thousands right now. Just wait. As more leave and those that remain are called on to pony up more taxes the trickle will become an exodus.

I've heard some high and mighty comments to the effect "good riddance" to those who renounce. Good luck to those of us who will remain. Talk about choking the golden goose to death!

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That's very true. I know a few expats myself and all of them struggle with taxes. Though also, say least according to what they've told me, their tax rates are a little ridiculous for not even living in this country.

I also don't agree with our current corporate tax structure either

JimG. said:

Perhaps one of the 40,000 servicemen who are about to be laid off would like to discuss that.

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And I didn't say there's not a huge problem with our programs our income taxes help pay for, in fact, I said we're in trouble on that front. Yes we pay more than three times the second place military spender, but that doesn't mean our military is taking hits right now too.

My whole point is that we're in trouble and cutting taxes isn't going to do anything but make the problem a lot worse. I also feel that the federal government does a lot for this country and I have no problem giving them my taxes because I'm earning what I'm earning. I'll never understand the desire that once you reach the top you just want to hide in a corner with your money stacked around and not share it with anyone.

If you're one of the smartest kids in class, the teacher asks you to spend some extra time to tutor other kids and you do it because it's a good thing you do and it doesn't take that long. Same thing here, our income bracket has the means to give more. We're still the class of people seeing the biggest jumps in income post income tax, so why is there so much complaining? I view it as part of living in a community that you care about. I care about this country, I care about our community, and I don't want to leave everyone to the wolves

yeggous said:

The country will deal with the national debt the same way that it always has. It will inflate the currency until it diminishes as a percentage of GDP. That is how we paid back the debt from World War II which was even higher. Greece can't do that since their currency is not national and that is their problem.

The financial problem the government isn't talking about is the student loan crisis. The boomers have systematically been reducing funding of public higher education. At the same time college has become all but a requirement to have a career. That has driven up the cost of college to unprecedented levels.

My wife and I "did the right thing" by going to school. We both have graduate degrees and jobs that on paper pay well. Our biggest problem that our student loan debt is significantly higher than our mortgage, has more than double the interest rate, and is not tax deductible. It will take us decades to pay it off if we ever do. That leaves little free cash at the end of the day.

The student loan debt bubble is already having big impacts in the real estate market and it will get worse. As boomers want to dump their McMansions in the suburbs there will be no avoiding the fact that there will not be enough people around to buy them at the price they expect. There are less Millenials to begin with. That coupled with the crushing student loan debt that Millenials face will prevent them from getting the credit for the big mortgage.


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And yes, student loans terrify me. The statement is constantly said that millenials don't like and don't want to buy a house or a car. That might be true for some, but for others they just physically can't. The housing market is due for a nasty shock once more millenials start having families but can't buy a house when the baby boomers are selling selling selling