AT Binding Discussion

Abubob · Jul 17, 2015

I'm considering putting a AT (alpine touring) binding on my Dynastar Legends.

Having just gotten a pair of Dalbello Panterras a tech binding is out of the question.

The Marker Duke seem to be the most popular for resort use and light touring. But the weight and switch over (under the boot) worry me.

The Diamir Fritschis I'm familiar with are all plastic and of course the ones I have are much older and I don't think they'd stand up to a resort pounding for more than a run or two. But I wonder how would the newer models hold up.

Atomic, Tyrolia and even Black Diamond are making these "post" type binding but I know nothing about them.

Anyone have experience with any of these bindings?

skiNEwhere · Jul 17, 2015

The duke is a hardy, durable binding that I've never had any problems with pre-release on.

That comes at a price though, literally and figuratively. I think they are $400 new, and they are very heavy. So yea they are good for in bounds, but if you're doing long tours, they will wear you down.

I've also felt that they are hard to carve with. I think this due to the design native to AT bindings overall. The binding is not as rigid laterally as a dedicated alpine binding. I have them mounted on soul 7's though, which is definitely not a carving ski.

You could also consider the marker baron, which is the little brother to the duke. Max DIN of 13 (vs Dukes 16) and a little lighter, and cheaper.

I wish the release for the Dukes were behind the heel instead of under the boot. You have to take your skis off anyways to put skins on, but there have been times when I'm stuck on a flat traverse at a resort where I wish I could temporarily free my heel with a ski pole.

I'm not sure if all AT binding are like this, but Dukes are an absolute BITCH to click the heel back in when you've been skinning through pow. There was one time I had to take my car keys out of my pocket to free snow out of the track. Literally took 10 minutes to lock my heel back in.

Abubob · Jul 17, 2015

skiNEwhere said:
The duke is a hardy, durable binding that I've never had any problems with pre-release on.

That comes at a price though, literally and figuratively. I think they are $400 new, and they are very heavy. So yea they are good for in bounds, but if you're doing long tours, they will wear you down.

I've also felt that they are hard to carve with. I think this due to the design native to AT bindings overall. The binding is not as rigid laterally as a dedicated alpine binding. I have them mounted on soul 7's though, which is definitely not a carving ski.

You could also consider the marker baron, which is the little brother to the duke. Max DIN of 13 (vs Dukes 16) and a little lighter, and cheaper.

I wish the release for the Dukes were behind the heel instead of under the boot. You have to take your skis off anyways to put skins on, but there have been times when I'm stuck on a flat traverse at a resort where I wish I could temporarily free my heel with a ski pole.

I'm not sure if all AT binding are like this, but Dukes are an absolute BITCH to click the heel back in when you've been skinning through pow. There was one time I had to take my car keys out of my pocket to free snow out of the track. Literally took 10 minutes to lock my heel back in.

These are the exact problems I've heard about. Icing and weight. Hadn't thought about the carving issue.

deadheadskier · Jul 17, 2015

Agreed on the click back in part skiNEwhere. I've had really bad experiences with that too

Abubob · Jul 17, 2015

I've heard enough. Marker is out. Any experience with the others?

Hawkshot99 · Jul 17, 2015

I have Dukes mounted n Soul 7's for my AT/Powder setup. The pair I have are the first year release of the Duke so I think 8 years of use? They have been transfered along to several pairs of skis over the years, I believe they are now on their 4th pair.

Pros-
Strong and beefy, allow me to ski them hard without worry(I am a big guy)
Wider binding helps turn a ski easier
I personally love the Marker Royal family for its release characteristics

Negs-
They are heavy....
After many years of use they have started to have some play in them
I guess the switch for changing from skim to ski, but I have never had a problem with this. I cant take skins off with skis on, and have never experienced freeze up.
You are quite high above the ski. But this seems to be a norm of AT's except for possibly tech style

I wish I had gotten Barons when I got the Dukes as they are lighter and cheaper. However they were sold out, and I was just able to get a pair of Dukes when I did. If I were to buy now, I would e getting the F12 Tour from Marker. They are much lighter, and I have several friends who are happy with them.

Not Sure · Jul 17, 2015

deadheadskier said:
Agreed on the click back in part skiNEwhere. I've had really bad experiences with that too

After the first ice up I started carrying a small screwdriver to cleanout those small channels .

Hawkshot99 · Jul 17, 2015

Siliconebobsquarepants said:
After the first ice up I started carrying a small screwdriver to cleanout those small channels .

Ski pole tip?

skiNEwhere · Jul 17, 2015

Hawkshot99 said:
Ski pole tip?

That really worked for you? There's only maybe 2-3 mm of clearance underneath the track where the heel part slides back in. I know my pole tip wouldn't fit.

skiNEwhere · Jul 17, 2015

I found this post on TGR. Granted it's from 2011 but the general consensus is that the F12 is more geared towards touring than hard skiing.

I'd see if the reliability issues have been fixed

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/213234-Marker-Binding-question-(Duke-Baron-F12)

Not Sure · Jul 17, 2015

skiNEwhere said:
That really worked for you? There's only maybe 2-3 mm of clearance underneath the track where the heel part slides back in. I know my pole tip wouldn't fit.

Maybe for parts of the binding yes but there no way to clear the rail area .
When your skinning the whole upper part of the binding slides back a good 1.5 ""
I ran into problems sliding it back , I thought about some silicone spray to keep things from sticking but haven't tried it yet.

deadheadskier · Jul 17, 2015

I've found the best solution is to just be too lazy to skin much at all.

Hawkshot99 · Jul 17, 2015

skiNEwhere said:
That really worked for you? There's only maybe 2-3 mm of clearance underneath the track where the heel part slides back in. I know my pole tip wouldn't fit.

I have done some light cleaning with my pole tip, but honestly have never had a pronlem with any build up. I have had the misfortune of stepping in running water of creeks and then had either the skins, or bottoms of my skis freeze up with ice and snow to be scraped off.

skiNEwhere · Jul 18, 2015

bigbog said:
I think any carving issues are with the skier.

My friend has the soul 7's as well with jesters, and the same BSL as me. I tried his skis and they were easier to carve with. I do think the type of binding (AT/Alpine) does make a difference. There is no way you can make a tight fit on an AT binding between the track that's screwed into the ski and the portion that slides into it, at least not as tight the equivalent of an alpine binding. There will be a little give.

Messed around with the AFD (binding height)as well to no avail.

bigbog · Jul 19, 2015

Latest Marker Tour F12/F10, (0º ramp), love em....
Salomon Guardian(2nd edition) love it but a little much in +ramp(~6º)..would need more of a toe shim.
Atomic's Tracker 16 = exact same binding as the Guardian.
Yes, agree with your AT/Alpine comparison skiNEwhere...

Not Sure · Jul 19, 2015

bigbog said:
Latest Marker Tour F12/F10, (0º ramp), love em....
Salomon Guardian(2nd edition) love it but a little much in +ramp(~6º)..would need more of a toe shim.
Atomic's Tracker 16 = exact same binding as the Guardian.
Yes, agree with your AT/Alpine comparison skiNEwhere...

They look like solid choices but the weights are up there with Dukes
http://www.evo.com/ski-binding-weight-chart-for-alpine-backcountry-bindings.aspx

marcski · Jul 20, 2015

skiNEwhere said:
My friend has the soul 7's as well with jesters, and the same BSL as me. I tried his skis and they were easier to carve with. I do think the type of binding (AT/Alpine) does make a difference. There is no way you can make a tight fit on an AT binding between the track that's screwed into the ski and the portion that slides into it, at least not as tight the equivalent of an alpine binding. There will be a little give.

Messed around with the AFD (binding height)as well to no avail.

This where tech bindings come in to the rescue, no? No moving parts that can give you play.

Not Sure · Jul 20, 2015

marcski said:
This where tech bindings come in to the rescue, no? No moving parts that can give you play.

Can't speak for other bindings but I use my Dukes as a daily driver in bounds.
When I mounted them they were on a bench and on a ski that has camber.
The tolerances were really tight and maybe that's why I have ice issues occasionally.
I have no "slop" at all . Tech bindings are Ok for groomers but present heel issues in bumps.
http://www.timefortuckerman.com/forums/showthread.php?p=169787#post169787
Read last paragraph of Cat's comment.

skiNEwhere · Jul 21, 2015

Siliconebobsquarepants said:
Maybe for parts of the binding yes but there no way to clear the rail area .
When your skinning the whole upper part of the binding slides back a good 1.5 ""
I ran into problems sliding it back , I thought about some silicone spray to keep things from sticking but haven't tried it yet.

Why am I not surprised?

Not Sure · Jul 21, 2015

skiNEwhere said:
Why am I not surprised?

Haha ...was wondering if that would get a response , Silicone has thousands of uses.

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