Smugglers Notch lift opinions

yeggous · Aug 26, 2015

Newpylong said:
Based on what I heard last year they might need to do some work on the pipes on Lift Lion and Upper Wildcat before they can be charged. Wildcat is like Magic whereas almost the entire mountain had snowmaking at one point but the system was neglected.

I hope some of these deficiencies are on their radar there is so much good terrain off the top if those 2 could be open more often.

This is spot on. Most of their old pipe won't hold pressure. Unfortunately I don't see Peak Resorts investing further money into their pipe. Snowmaking at Wildcat is more expensive due to the need to use diesel. Peak Resorts is losing money so they're not prepared to invest in the kitty. Most of their recent upgrades were an existential need.

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deadheadskier · Aug 26, 2015

I do realize that they can decrease the number of chairs to run at a lower capacity. As MMW described well, there's also wind direction as a factor. A fixed grip would run more often than a detachable.

I'm wondering if the same folks calling for the HSQ at Smuggs feel the same about the Castlerock Double chair at Sugarbush. This always comes up with Smuggs, but not Castlerock. For some reason preserving the character and snow conditions on Castlerock is sacred, but doing the same for the expert terrain on Madonna is not, even though Madonna expert terrain is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Castlerock IMO.

xwhaler · Aug 26, 2015

My opinion: HSQ/Triple on Sterling, leave M1 as is
2 other thoughts I havent heard mentioned yet
1) I'd also suggest possibly a HSQ to replace M2---unload area should be able to handle it and would help spread intermediate traffic over there

2) resurrect the mid station on M1 for uploading. Perhaps it wouldn't get used that much on the wknds as chairs would be full but could be nice midweek to lap the upper mtn and not deal with the run out.

ThinkSnow · Aug 26, 2015

deadheadskier said:
even though Madonna expert terrain is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Castlerock IMO.

I would say you are in the minority with this opinion.

deadheadskier · Aug 26, 2015

ThinkSnow said:
I would say you are in the minority with this opinion.

In Waitsfield? Yup. In Jeffersonville? Nope.

IMO - Madonna Lift line is the premier marked expert run in New England. Tramline at Cannon coming in a close second.

I'll give a slight edge to Robins over Rumble. Similar trails, but Robins has more drops.

Castle Rock Run and Middle Earth have more character than Upper FIS and Freefall, so probably advantage Bush there. Slight though as I'd consider the two Smuggs trails more challenging due to much longer consistently steeper terrain.

MadMadWorld · Aug 26, 2015

ThinkSnow said:
I would say you are in the minority with this opinion.

I'm with DHS and I have skied both a lot. The off map stuff doesn't even come close either. The Survey lines are ridiculous. Shots off of Robin's and everything in Black Hole are far more challenging then anything I have skied off of Castlerock

Tin · Aug 26, 2015

Madonna's on map and off map stuff is far more difficult than anything in Castlerock and generally has better snow conditions.

steamboat1 · Aug 26, 2015

Saddleback may close this year because their main double chair lacks uphill capacity. Just saying.

On another note Castlerock is not the main lift at Sugarbush.

deadheadskier · Aug 26, 2015

What is the "main lift" at Sugarbush?

Heavens gate, Lynx, and Ellen chairs are all fixed grip too.

xwhaler · Aug 26, 2015

steamboat1 said:
Saddleback may close this year because their main double chair lacks uphill capacity. Just saying.

..

danimals · Aug 26, 2015

i went to smuggs for the first time last year. The terrain was incredible, but man, those lifts. anything would be an improvement. As others have said, i don't think theres much they can do, as once you are off of the lift you either turn left, right, or off the backside.

steamboat1 · Aug 26, 2015

deadheadskier said:
What is the "main lift" at Sugarbush?

Heavens gate, Lynx, and Ellen chairs are all fixed grip too.

Heh?????

Super Bravo & Gatehouse which are the two main chairs out of the Lincoln Peak base area are both HSQ's. At Mount Ellen you have the Green Mountain Express as the main lift out of the base which is also a HSQ. There's also the North Ridge Express at Ellen if you don't want to ski all the way to the bottom. How can you compare Smuggs or Saddleback to the lift system at the Bush?

deadheadskier · Aug 26, 2015

Because one could argue that replacing Sterling with a High Speed Quad which I've said I'm in favor of would make for the same type of scenario at Sugarbush and their lower mountain high speed chairs. Sterling is more the main lift than Madonna. It sees twice the skier traffic.

Sugarbush just like Smuggs doesn't offer high speed lifts at their main summits due to wind and lack of trail capacity. Same reason why many don't want a HSQ up Madonna.

And it was you who brought Saddleback into the discussion not I.

steamboat1 · Aug 26, 2015

deadheadskier said:
Because one could argue that replacing Sterling with a High Speed Quad which I've said I'm in favor of would make for the same type of scenario at Sugarbush and their lower mountain high speed chairs. Sterling is more the main lift than Madonna. It sees twice the skier traffic.

Sugarbush just like Smuggs doesn't offer high speed lifts at their main summits due to wind and lack of trail capacity. Same reason why many don't want a HSQ up Madonna.

And it was you who brought Saddleback into the discussion not I.

Upper mountain lifts?. M1 is the main lift period. I don't consider Morse the lower mountain off Madonna anymore than I'd consider Snowshed the lower mountain off K peak.

Anyway see you in a few days. I'll be out of radio contact.

deadheadskier · Aug 26, 2015

WTF? You just labeled the lower mountain lifts at SB as the main lifts. You didn't label the summit lifts as the main lifts.

The vast majority of skiing trails, acreage and people at Smuggs is at Sterling. That is where capacity is most needed. Sterling = Gate House / Valley House or NorthX.

WWF-VT · Aug 26, 2015

FWIW - I like Smuggs a lot and have always enjoyed skiing there. The lines suck on weekends and the I agree with DHS that a High Speed Quad on Sterling makes the most sense to improve uphill capacity.

BenedictGomez · Aug 26, 2015

deadheadskier said:
Sterling is more the main lift than Madonna. It sees twice the skier traffic.

Do you have data on that, because I feel 90% confident that cant be true. Just doesn't seem possible.

EDIT:

Unless maybe you arrive at it by counting all the early and late season dates in which Sterling is open and Madonna is closed, but that's a misleading interpretation if that's the math.

MadMadWorld · Aug 26, 2015

BenedictGomez said:
Do you have data on that, because I feel 90% confident that cant be true. Just doesn't seem possible.

EDIT:

Unless maybe you arrive at it by counting all the early and late season dates in which Sterling is open and Madonna is closed, but that's a misleading interpretation if that's the math.

I'd agree with him but even if that is not the case, if you have been there on a busy weekend, traffic gets spread out across M1 and Sterling depending on how long the wait is. If the line is longer at M1 then folks just go to Sterling. Putting in a HSQ at Sterling would spread the crowd out even more that way. I really don't like riding M2 when Sterling and M1 are a shit show.

dlague · Aug 26, 2015

Well, looking at their trail map, Madonna II or Sterling would be good candidates for higher speed lifts. Both service areas that get more snow making (see below - yellow areas) therefore trails can be reworked or touched up much easier. Madonna I services trails that are not covered by snow making according to their trail map and would get beat to crap if there was too much traffic. The problem with Madonna II it does not provide any access to advanced terrain and the lift unloading area is kind of a choking point where people are skiing down from Madonna I so with higher capacity there might be more danger.

So Sterling is the best option!

MadMadWorld · Aug 26, 2015

dlague said:
Well, looking at their trail map, Madonna II or Sterling would be good candidates for higher speed lifts. Both service areas that get more snow making (see below - yellow areas) therefore trails can be reworked or touched up much easier. Madonna I services trails that are not covered by snow making according to their trail map and would get beat to crap if there was too much traffic. The problem with Madonna II it does not provide any access to advanced terrain and the lift unloading area is kind of a choking point where people are skiing down from Madonna I so with higher capacity there might be more danger.

So Sterling is the best option!

View attachment 17364

Not to mention the terrain over there is boring as hell. It has some great intermediate glades but the run out is rough on kids and the rest of the terrain on that side is repetitive. Sterling is by far the best option.

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