USSA Proposes World Cup At Killington

drjeff · Apr 6, 2017

I know all of my friends (about 10 families) who went last year are already planning on returning, and how we can improve upon our experience (think big tailgate party in the preferred parking KBL lots) and multiple other ski racing families who our kids race with at Mount Snow, but didn't go last year, want to go to the races this Thanksgiving weekend after hearing what a great time all of us that went had!

If you went, I think you'd be thinking that there won't be much drop off in attendance for this year based on how cool an event it was to experience live!

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cdskier · Apr 6, 2017

Thinking about what drjeff said is interesting. Almost makes me wonder if you could see an INCREASE in attendance next year with people that missed out this year. I certainly wouldn't be surprised. I could easily see attendance being steady or slightly increasing for at least the next one or two years. Maybe if they kept hosting it after that you'd start to see some decrease in attendance. It will be cool to see what happens. I'd love to see K continue to be a success for hosting this event.

VTKilarney · Oct 30, 2017

At what point does the warm weather result in a meaningful risk that the event will be cancelled? Have we hit the point yet where the weather in November is going to have to be just right in order to pull this off?

SkiMom80 · Oct 30, 2017

My guess is they need a week to blow snow and be ready for the race. Less if they REALLY rush it. The race will go on...IMO the bigger question is whether anything else will be open on the mountain???

Newpylong · Oct 30, 2017

I woudn't count on it. There are already grumblings in the region of pulling the plug based on the 30 Day outlook.

Imho I don't see it happening.

slatham · Oct 30, 2017

My understanding is the course is inspected, and a go/no-go decision is made, one week prior to the event. So November 17th or 18th is the relevant time frame.

I also understand that they need 72 hours of solid snowmaking to get Superstar ready. Obviously more time is needed if there is warm weather in between snowmaking windows, or between the window and the race.

So there is time.

On the other hand, the models have repeatedly forecasted cold that has not materialize as advertised, this week a case in point.

But given the indications from the models, the broader forecast variables long-range forecasters use, and the seasonal drop it temps, I still believe they will pull this off.

mriceyman · Oct 31, 2017

slatham said:
My understanding is the course is inspected, and a go/no-go decision is made, one week prior to the event. So November 17th or 18th is the relevant time frame.

I also understand that they need 72 hours of solid snowmaking to get Superstar ready. Obviously more time is needed if there is warm weather in between snowmaking windows, or between the window and the race.

So there is time.

On the other hand, the models have repeatedly forecasted cold that has not materialize as advertised, this week a case in point.

But given the indications from the models, the broader forecast variables long-range forecasters use, and the seasonal drop it temps, I still believe they will pull this off.

Yep one week prior is inspection.. if course doesnt have enough snow it will be cancelled. Doesnt matter if its 5* the next 4 days and they can make all the snow they need. 1 week is the end all be all. Killington will get it done .. they just need a little help from ma nature

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BenedictGomez · Oct 31, 2017

slatham said:
On the other hand, the models have repeatedly forecasted cold that has not materialize as advertised, this week a case in point.

But given the indications from the models, the broader forecast variables long-range forecasters use, and the seasonal drop it temps, I still believe they will pull this off.

That's not so. The long-range outlook for October, and again for November, has been unseasonably warm. Some transient cold shots, but overall warm. This has been the rare occasion where the long-range models have performed decently, because they're often crap.

skiur · Oct 31, 2017

mriceyman said:
Yep one week prior is inspection.. if course doesnt have enough snow it will be cancelled. Doesnt matter if its 5* the next 4 days and they can make all the snow they need. 1 week is the end all be all. Killington will get it done .. they just need a little help from ma nature

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Last year the course was not ready 1 week out. At the time of inspection they needed a day or two more to get the course where it needed to be. The forecast was for favorable snowmaking conditions all week so they passed inspection without the course ready.

BenedictGomez · Oct 31, 2017

To repeat my thoughts from 2014 or 2015 or whenever this was first proposed; scheduling ski events in November in Vermont is idiotic.

Even if they pull this off, it will be interesting what marketers at Killington think of the optics from this race if every camera shot & photo other than the man-made run is of grass & brown barren ground. Worse if that man-made run is total slush & gloppy slop.

Under such conditions, I could make a strong argument Killington would hurt itself more by having the race than by simply canceling the race, as "snowmaking capabilities" is one of the pillars Killington stakes its' reputation on. Especially with the lesser-informed, casual skier class that comprise the masses.

doublediamond · Oct 31, 2017

mriceyman said:
Yep one week prior is inspection.. if course doesnt have enough snow it will be cancelled. Doesnt matter if its 5* the next 4 days and they can make all the snow they need. 1 week is the end all be all. Killington will get it done .. they just need a little help from ma nature

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That is incorrect. The go/no-go decision is based on how much snow is on the ground and the upcoming weather forecast and snowmaking production abilities. There are times also where FIS bumps the go/no-go decision back to a later date.

andrec10 · Oct 31, 2017

BenedictGomez said:
To repeat my thoughts from 2014 or 2015 or whenever this was first proposed; scheduling ski events in November in Vermont is idiotic.

Even if they pull this off, it will be interesting what marketers at Killington think of the optics from this race if every camera shot & photo other than the man-made run is of grass & brown barren ground. Worse if that man-made run is total slush & gloppy slop.

Under such conditions, I could make a strong argument Killington would hurt itself more by having the race than by simply canceling the race, as "snowmaking capabilities" is one of the pillars Killington stakes its' reputation on. Especially with the lesser-informed, casual skier class that comprise the masses.

Unless the surface is rock solid and in good shape, FIS will cancel it. You wont see them racing on glop...

doublediamond · Oct 31, 2017

BenedictGomez said:
To repeat my thoughts from 2014 or 2015 or whenever this was first proposed; scheduling ski events in November in Vermont is idiotic.

Unless there is a MASSIVE reshuffle to the WC calendar including dumping a good number of races/hosts, there is NO WAY there will ever be USA/Canadian races outside of the Thanksgiving/1st weekend December time frame. North American hosts overall has a lot more snowmaking firepower than European hosts.

It has to be this time because of travel logistics between the continents. The snowmaking abilities cement this calendar.

KustyTheKlown · Oct 31, 2017

world cup ski racing at killington in November is dumb stupid. last year they were dumb lucky.

BenedictGomez · Oct 31, 2017

KustyTheKlown said:
world cup ski racing at killington in November is dumb stupid. last year they were dumb lucky.

My guess is they can pull it off 3/5 of the time, but yes, it's dumb.

It's like playing Russian Roulette with an FIS event.

slatham · Oct 31, 2017

BenedictGomez said:
That's not so. The long-range outlook for October, and again for November, has been unseasonably warm. Some transient cold shots, but overall warm. This has been the rare occasion where the long-range models have performed decently, because they're often crap.

BG, I am referring to the GFS and Euro forecast models which go out 15 days and had shown cold coming in that did not fully materialize. You are (correctly) referring to long range climatology models that forecasted a warm October. But even in a period of "warmer" than average weather the NE can have productive periods of snowmaking.

Jully · Oct 31, 2017

andrec10 said:
Unless the surface is rock solid and in good shape, FIS will cancel it. You wont see them racing on glop...

Agreed. Luckily for Killington though, the snow produced in marginal temperatures is actually pretty good FIS snow though. I thought I remembered hearing last year that not as much prep was needed to firm up the snow as is usual because it was so dense already.

Jully · Oct 31, 2017

mriceyman said:
Yep one week prior is inspection.. if course doesnt have enough snow it will be cancelled. Doesnt matter if its 5* the next 4 days and they can make all the snow they need. 1 week is the end all be all. Killington will get it done .. they just need a little help from ma nature

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skiur said:
Last year the course was not ready 1 week out. At the time of inspection they needed a day or two more to get the course where it needed to be. The forecast was for favorable snowmaking conditions all week so they passed inspection without the course ready.

Agreed. Like doublediamond also said, the course does not have to be 100% ready by inspection, but it has to be clear that they will be able to make it ready by the time of the race. Last year K was a good ways of the way there, and there was a clear window in the forecast that enabled them to wrap up the snowmaking a few days before the race.

If course inspection happens in the middle of a cold snap and K is like 50%-70% of the way there and there's another 2-4 days of solid temperatures ahead, the race will still happen. Not all doom and gloom on this year yet! I do have questions about the stability of this race at K moving forward though... even pushing it back 1 weekend would help a ton.

drjeff · Oct 31, 2017

If anyone in the East can pull it off, It's Killington!

And given the success of last years event, and the decent chance after last weekend World Cup opener in Soelden, Austria, where Lindsey Vonn raced GS for the 1st time in about 20 months, the prospects of having both Shiffrin and Vonn racing infront a crowd that hopefully will be as big, if not bigger if Vonn is there, as last year, has to have Killington, the FIS, the USSA and VARA very excited and worth the risk of non cooperative weather.

As anyone who was actually there last year will tell you, once you got past the parking challenges, the actual race experience was such a cool thing to see and experience! Can't wait to hopefully be watching it again live, weather permitting on November 25th! :flag: :flag: :flag:

ss20 · Oct 31, 2017

It was pretty good marketing last year with snow flakes and a white ground through the weekend

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