USSA Proposes World Cup At Killington - Page 5

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
    This is totally false. Low-e guns are completely ineffective in marginal temps.
    They're "ineffective" because they put out so little per gun. You double or more up, you match the output of other guns. 2 of these SnowLogics match one modern HKD tower while using less air. 2 modern HKD towers matches the K3000 or Ratnik Snow Giant II while using less air.

    If you're so smart, you tell me the flow characteristics of the SnowLogic 4-step ground gun with an 8 cfm nucleating nozzle.



    Look at Loon. 100% low-E snowguns for early season snowmaking. They're kicking a lot of butt. They more or less doubled their hydrants with their snowmaking upgrades a couple years ago.

    Look at Wildcat. 100% low-E guns on Lynx. They were the first to have a 2000 vertical ft trail. About half of their guns on Lynx are these SnowLogics.

    Look at Sunday River. 100% low-E guns on T2. They match or beat Killington. 30-ft hydrant spacing just like Killington up around the Ridge Triple.

    The only time they are "ineffective" is if it's over 28F WB. In that case no one anywhere in New England will be making snow because these air-hogs have just gotten far too expensive with high energy costs these days.

    The new Ratnik ground guns they got can go up to 31F WB, with an air-water ratio of only about 14:1 at that temperature. Here's the flow curves for the Ratnik Snow Giant II. The Baby Snow Giant X-2 which is what Killington has, is "40% or more efficient."
    Last edited by doublediamond; Oct 2, 2015 at 1:05 PM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
    Well, put this to the BS test....

    Superstar is 3400ft long, and roughly 200ft wide, 300ft wide at the bottom. Lets call it 15 acres. They need to put down roughly 5 feet of snow to get the base depths required to groom the hill nice and flat.....trust me, race teams will not be happy if they keep shanking rocks. So that's 75 acre feet of snow. About what it would take to get the northridge triple open and a snowdon route open, with decent but marginal coverage, to the bottom of the K-1. They have to make all this snow by around Nov 20th, the weekend prior, so they can get the hill prepped and allow some training on it.
    Wow. You know nothing about grooming. No snowmaking trail in New England needs 5-ft of man made to get the groomer over it. You're nuts. They also don't groom race trails at this calibre flat. They leave every little bump in the hill up on the skiing surface. You really only need about 18".

    And the "Snow Control" visit the week before isn't just to see if they have enough snow. They will look at the weather and the ability to make snow. Killington can blast early season snowmaking VERY fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
    EPIC FAIL!

    Ahahaha.
    Last edited by doublediamond; Oct 2, 2015 at 1:07 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by doublediamond View Post
    They're "ineffective" because they put out so little per gun. You double or more up, you match the output of other guns. 2 of these SnowLogics match one modern HKD tower while using less air. 2 modern HKD towers matches the K3000 or Ratnik Snow Giant II while using less air.

    If you're so smart, you tell me the flow characteristics of the SnowLogic 4-step ground gun with an 8 cfm nucleating nozzle.

    Look at Loon. 100% low-E snowguns for early season snowmaking. They're kicking a lot of butt. They more or less doubled their hydrants with their snowmaking upgrades a couple years ago.

    Look at Wildcat. 100% low-E guns on Lynx. They were the first to have a 2000 vertical ft trail. About half of their guns on Lynx are these SnowLogics.

    Look at Sunday River. 100% low-E guns on T2. They match or beat Killington. 30-ft hydrant spacing just like Killington up around the Ridge Triple.

    The only time they are "ineffective" is if it's over 28F WB. In that case no one anywhere in New England will be making snow because these air-hogs have just gotten far too expensive with high energy costs these days.

    The new Ratnik ground guns they got can go up to 31F WB, with an air-water ratio of only about 14:1 at that temperature. Here's the flow curves for the Ratnik Snow Giant II. The Baby Snow Giant X-2 which is what Killington has, is "40% or more efficient."
    Lol, what? I bet most of the places you cite are swaping out snowguns to high-e types in marginal temps. You're falling for ski area enviro-marketing BS. At 28f wet bulb, low-e guns make almost no snow. Nobody is putting a snowgun every 5 feet. Killington uses their K3000's and ratnicks ALL THE TIME IN MARGINAL TEMPS BECAUSE THEY ARE FAR MORE EFFECTIVE. PERIOD.

    YOU'RE WRONG. STOP POSTING MISINFORMATION. YOU CAN'T OVERCOME PHYSICS.
    "For example, I ski without a helmet and with bindings that basically don't release." - Highway Star

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by doublediamond View Post
    Wow. You know nothing about grooming. No snowmaking trail in New England needs 5-ft of man made to get the groomer over it. You're nuts. They also don't groom race trails at this calibre flat. They leave every little bump in the hill up on the skiing surface. You really only need about 18".

    And the "Snow Control" visit the week before isn't just to see if they have enough snow. They will look at the weather and the ability to make snow. Killington can blast early season snowmaking VERY fast.

    Ahahaha.
    Unless the FIS is run by morons (which is quite possible, look at 35m GS skis), they will not do this at Killington once they look at their history.

    Most black and double black diamond trails at Killington get about 5 feet of snow on them before they are groomed out. They have plenty of rocks and deep waterbars on them
    Last edited by Highway Star; Oct 2, 2015 at 1:27 PM.
    "For example, I ski without a helmet and with bindings that basically don't release." - Highway Star

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
    At 28f wet bulb, low-e guns make almost no snow.
    How did Loon and Wildcat or Killington open so early with 100% low-E guns?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
    Nobody is putting a snowgun every 5 feet.
    I'm not saying Killington needs to do so. I'm saying they *can* while using *LESS* air than currently. These guns are $5k+ a pop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
    YOU'RE WRONG. STOP POSTING MISINFORMATION. YOU CAN'T OVERCOME PHYSICS.[/B]
    November 2 last year, early season snowmaking:


    Yes, that isn't 28F WB. But the second stage is on full-bore.

    EDIT: The low that day was 30F 80% Humidity in Rutland around 8 to 9 AM. WB of 28.7 This pic looks like that time frame of day. IDK at what elevation this pic was at, but for sake of argument let's say 3787' (3000' above KRUT). 3000 1000 x -3.56 = -10.7

    At the very best, the WB was around 18.0 WB.

    So. If I'm so wrong, what can a SnowLogic 4-step gun with an 8-cfm nucleating nozzle put out at 28F WB? 26F WB? 24? Etc? Seriously, before you start using size 9000 font, prove to me I'm wrong.
    Last edited by doublediamond; Oct 2, 2015 at 1:39 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by doublediamond View Post
    How did Loon and Wildcat or Killington open so early with 100% low-E guns?!?



    I'm not saying Killington needs to do so. I'm saying they *can* while using *LESS* air than currently. These guns are $5k+ a pop.



    November 2 last year, early season snowmaking:


    Yes, that isn't 28F WB. But the second stage is on full-bore.

    So. If I'm so wrong, what can a SnowLogic 4-step gun with an 8-cfm nucleating nozzle put out at 28F WB? 26F WB? 24? Etc? Seriously, before you start using size 9000 font, prove to me I'm wrong.
    WOW!

    That's super impressive, you know, how those there low-e guns are virtually painting the trail with snow. Like a really fierce paint sprayer! Wow!!!

    I mean, seriously, it looks like they may have blown at least 4" of snow there. Wow, amazing! I can barely see the grass sticking through! Looks like nice solid, icy, base bulding snow too, my favorite.

    Give them another TWO WEEKS, and they might actually get open on November 15th. Just like Loon!!!

    http://www.loonmtn.com/media-center/...ng-day-at-loon

    You sure proved me wrong!



    Last edited by Highway Star; Oct 2, 2015 at 1:42 PM.
    "For example, I ski without a helmet and with bindings that basically don't release." - Highway Star

  7. #47
    So when did they start making snow on that trail? It looks like East Fall to me. When did the trail open?!?

    I repeat. Before you use size 9000 font, what the fuck is the flow characteristics of a SnowLogic gun?!?!?!?!

    Seriously, you're funny.

    Right from their presser:

    Quote Originally Posted by Loon Mountain PR
    "Our improvements in efficiency over the last several years give us a huge early-season snowmaking advantage over what we could do just a few years ago," said Ralph Lewis, Loon's director of skiing operations.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by doublediamond View Post
    EDIT: The low that day was 30F 80% Humidity in Rutland around 8 to 9 AM. WB of 28.7 This pic looks like that time frame of day. IDK at what elevation this pic was at, but for sake of argument let's say 3787' (3000' above KRUT). 3000 1000 x -3.56 = -10.7

    At the very best, the WB was around 18.0 WB.
    You're a fool.
    "For example, I ski without a helmet and with bindings that basically don't release." - Highway Star

  9. #49
    Why doesn't Whiteface push for a event? Did the course criteria change in the last 35 years that the Olympic run doesn't qualify?

  10. #50
    Here's a nice shot of the snowlogic guns - note the large number OG K3000 snowguns running in the background:

    "For example, I ski without a helmet and with bindings that basically don't release." - Highway Star

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