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Killington Trail Expansion

ALLSKIING

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I was looking at Killington's Interactive Trail Map and it tells quite a story - trail expansion is going slow. Okemo, Sugarbush, Stowe, Sugarloaf, Sunday River, Loon, Stratton and Mount Snow have surpassed Killington. They always jump ahead and then fall behind. Same thing last year. They eventually catch up but ....

How do you know they are all putting down the exact same amount of snow? I can tell you Sugarbush is not.
 

ALLSKIING

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I was looking at Killington's Interactive Trail Map and it tells quite a story - trail expansion is going slow. Okemo, Sugarbush, Stowe, Sugarloaf, Sunday River, Loon, Stratton and Mount Snow have surpassed Killington. They always jump ahead and then fall behind. Same thing last year. They eventually catch up but ....

BTW have you even checked the trail count? Loon, Mt Snow stratton have less or the same trail count as K....and that's just what I checked.
 

skiur

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The big K has dropped the ball this year....may be because they only have like 8 compresors at snowshed when previous years they had 16-20.....they got a lot of new low-e guns but they dont do so well in these marginal conditions and the lack of air power is hurting them when they have to run the k3000's all the time in the less than ideal conditions.
 

mriceyman

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The lack of sustained cold has not been helpful this yeAr


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone
 

ALLSKIING

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The big K has dropped the ball this year....may be because they only have like 8 compresors at snowshed when previous years they had 16-20.....they got a lot of new low-e guns but they dont do so well in these marginal conditions and the lack of air power is hurting them when they have to run the k3000's all the time in the less than ideal conditions.

I don't now how true this is as I heard they almost maxed out on water.
 

Newpylong

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The big K has dropped the ball this year....may be because they only have like 8 compresors at snowshed when previous years they had 16-20.....they got a lot of new low-e guns but they dont do so well in these marginal conditions and the lack of air power is hurting them when they have to run the k3000's all the time in the less than ideal conditions.

They're doing fine mileage wise which represents best how much terrain is covered. I don't think there is room on the pad for 16-20 compressors but I could be wrong. Nevertheless, if air was truly the problem additional units can be obtained fairly quickly. IRs run about $5K/month on the non-instrument grade 1000-2000 cfm diesels. Pocket change for them. Doubt it's an issue.
 

steamboat1

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It depends on the temperature whether they max out on air or water. The higher the temperature the more air that is needed. Lower temperatures means they can pump more water to the guns maximizing snow production.
 

ALLSKIING

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It depends on the temperature whether they max out on air or water. The higher the temperature the more air that is needed. Lower temperatures means they can pump more water to the guns maximizing snow production.

Right....but if your maxed on water it doesn't matter how many compressors you have.
 

steamboat1

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I don't now how true this is as I heard they almost maxed out on water.

Yes Mike said earlier this season was the first time he remembers maxing out on water. By the way they got Cascade open today. They started blowing on that trail over a week ago ( a week ago Fri. to be exact). Just goes to show how much more snow is needed to open steeper terrain.
 

skiur

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Right....but if your maxed on water it doesn't matter how many compressors you have.

They can only max out on water when it is cold out. When they are blowing in warm conditions like all of nov n dec, that is when the lack of compressors hurts them. To get good production in upper 20's and lower 30's they have to use the k3000 guns and those are air hogs.
 

joshua segal

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I guess there are two ways of looking at things with respect to Killington:

Some would say, Killington has been slow to open new terrain and to get Snowshed up and running.

Others would say, Killington knows its market:
They have been open more days than anyone else.
And for those who remember the early days of snowmaking, Killington used to start by opening Snowshed. However, they quickly realized that early season skiers want advanced terrain and put off opening Snowshed.
Another factor: Beginning skiers are most likely to wait until the snow is good and are the most skeptical of machine made snow. Putting off opening Snowshed probably cost Killington nearly nothing in income while saving a bundle in snowmaking by not having to replace the snow that would have melted.
 

steamboat1

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They can only max out on water when it is cold out. When they are blowing in warm conditions like all of nov n dec, that is when the lack of compressors hurts them. To get good production in upper 20's and lower 30's they have to use the k3000 guns and those are air hogs.

How many times did they need to go back & resurface North Ridge, Snowdon & upper Great Northern? I can count at least 3 times, might be more. Even with using the K3000's. That's what hurt expansion, not lack of air. Then off course there were many days when they couldn't blow at all because of temperatures.
 

skiur

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I guess there are two ways of looking at things with respect to Killington:

Some would say, Killington has been slow to open new terrain and to get Snowshed up and running.

Others would say, Killington knows its market:
They have been open more days than anyone else.

Who was talking about snowshed?? I am speaking of the mountain in general. Skeptical on man made snow by beginning skiers? I dont think most beginners know or care about the difference in man made / natural snow.
 

skiur

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How many times did they need to go back & resurface North Ridge, Snowdon & upper Great Northern? I can count at least 3 times, might be more. Even with using the K3000's. That's what hurt expansion, not lack of air. Then off course there were many days when they couldn't blow at all because of temperatures.

I would have to disagree, I have been up many times this year in warm temps where there capacity seemed much lower than previous years. Now maybe they just chose to blow less in crappy conditions to save some money, but when we are talking a week before xmas I doubt that was the case. When it was down in the teens and low humidity they seemed to have no problem lighting up half the mountain.
 

steamboat1

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I would have to disagree, I have been up many times this year in warm temps where there capacity seemed much lower than previous years. Now maybe they just chose to blow less in crappy conditions to save some money, but when we are talking a week before xmas I doubt that was the case. When it was down in the teens and low humidity they seemed to have no problem lighting up half the mountain.
Actually they can light up more guns in higher temperatures because each gun is using less water. They've had close to 300 guns going at the same time this season. With lower temps they can't light up as many because each gun is using more water & they max out on their capacity to pump water up the hill.
 

skiur

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Actually they can light up more guns in higher temperatures because each gun is using less water. They've had close to 300 guns going at the same time this season. With lower temps they can't light up as many because each gun is using more water & they max out on their capacity to pump water up the hill.

not true, when using mostly k3000 guns as they do in high temps, air is the limiting factor not water.
 

steamboat1

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not true, when using mostly k3000 guns as they do in high temps, air is the limiting factor not water.

Well tell that to Jeff Temple head of mountain operations at Killington who wrote this:

"In the snowmaking business, your “manufacturing plant” has a set amount of air and water it can produce at any given time based on temperature. If temperatures are higher than the mid-teens, we are on the “air side of the curve,” meaning plenty of water and a large air producing plant coupled with low energy snow guns allows us to operate a maximum number of snowguns, over 200 at once. As temperatures drop below mid-teens, we go to the “water side of the curve,” and crews can send more water to each snowgun allowing each gun to produce a lot more snow, reducing number of guns needed but maintaining quality snow consistency".
 
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