Rest in Power Champ

joshua segal said:

It was a time when African Americans were treated very poorly in the military. The government was still working hard to enforce Jim Crow Laws and here we had a strong popular African American who had the gall to stand up for what he believed. Our thinking of the era was powerfully influenced by his vilification by the military, the FBI and the government. I don't believe he changed. Society changed around him.

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+1
...and add that politicians were busy sending everybody to Vietnam except their sons and every college boy, so I felt no ill will against his decisions. A terrific boxer.

joshua segal said:

It was a time when African Americans were treated very poorly in the military. The government was still working hard to enforce Jim Crow Laws and here we had a strong popular African American who had the gall to stand up for what he believed. Our thinking of the era was powerfully influenced by his vilification by the military, the FBI and the government. I don't believe he changed. Society changed around him.

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ditto w/ +1.... He fought the draft back in 67. A time when in the south, separate but equal was close to status quo. US had race riots through out the decade and Alabama gov Wallace in 1963 ran on a segregation platform.

imo... calling him a draft dodger is too simplistic. Blacks were required to serve when their number got call but to lived in a country where they had no representation and were not really treated as equals.

I too came from a military family , the men in our family on both sides all served in WWII . I have a deep respect for all who served then or serve today as volunteers . They are heros in my book .

This Vietnam war at the time was a source of great turmoil and contentious discussion among many families like mine . IT was the first time that THINGS were really foggy and unclear as to defining incidents , motivations etc and the idea of blind allegiance was being challenged by many .Blame that phenomena on whatever you wish , but times had changed and were never going back .

I was never drafted as the lottery was in play at the time.Although i never joined the PROTEST MOVEMENT of the time ,i was personally opposed to the basis for that war as previously stated . MY career also exempted me .

BUT my career choice was made without reservation as a hs kid. I was raised near a college campus and my dad was very involved with the Alumni office and i spent lots of time on campus and grew to really enjoy the environment . So i knew from an early age that working on a campus would be my goal .

Today's professional army is a different animal . They are very well educated , articulate , aware of the need to effectively manage expectations and have strong communication and human relation skills . I had the privilege of providing Executive Leadership Development / Strategic Planning seminars to the command leadership staff at Fort Drum ( nearby ) on several occasions back in the time of Desert Shield and Desert Storm . These men and women are among the finest i've had the opportunity to work with .

You don't need to like someone or their opinions to respect the obvious impact they have/had on the world.

Look at the wide diversity of people who he called friend. Howard Cosell comes to mind first.

JimG. said:

You don't need to like someone or their opinions to respect the obvious impact they have/had on the world.

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Exactly..... another point people often overlook is that the chances of Ali being in harms way in Vietnam was slim to none. He was the world champ at the time, if he became a casualty due to a fire fight it would have been a rally cry to end or put more heated attention on a controversial war (conflict as the US called it) . Ali and his handlers knew he would be put in rear guard duty much like Roger Staubach did when he served. Or in a best case scenario tour to boast moral and ease racial tension as J Louis did in WW2. IMO, Ali did not want used as a symbol in this manner.

deadheadskier said:

Comparing sport to war makes little sense.

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I'll avoid the obvious troll by steamboat and ask if you really believe this? I played organized sports and my children do currently. I'm a relatively peaceful person. But I think sport is training for war....or at least an evolution from that idea. Sooooooo maaaany war metaphors and allegories in the terminology.

Ball fields and courts are where you win battlefield glory these days.

witch hobble said:

I'll avoid the obvious troll by steamboat

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Why a troll? How many people do you know that either served or died in Nam? Me quite a few & of those who returned many have either malaria or have affects from agent orange not to mention the psychological effects. No I didn't serve but did have a lottery number & would have gone if called, Ali refused. Just because you disagree with the way I feel doesn't make it a troll. The draft ended the year I became eligible.

Two uncles who served. Raised by a father who was a quiet objector and avoided service on the student deferrment -> corporate job track. None of that relevant, but you asked.

Anytime someone publicly slanders a beloved person less than 36 hours after they've died it seems a bit trollish to me, regardless of how much the war affected you.

Standing up for his belief system and moral code won him a lot of glory in the court of public opinion in the long run. Sorry you feel different and that you came across as a dick.

witch hobble said:

I'll avoid the obvious troll by steamboat and ask if you really believe this? I played organized sports and my children do currently. I'm a relatively peaceful person. But I think sport is training for war....or at least an evolution from that idea. Sooooooo maaaany war metaphors and allegories in the terminology.

Ball fields and courts are where you win battlefield glory these days.

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The Maya played a game resembling basketball.

The losers were beheaded.

steamboat1 said:

Pacifist my ass. He had no problem getting in a ring & beating someone to a pulp. Draft dodger.

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Draft dodger, you mean, like John Wayne, Frank Sinatra, and Elvis getting a cushy ride in the Army? to name a just a few.

Boxing was viewed by most as a legit sport back then, not a blood sport. Revisionist history is a bitch.

I come from a long line of military service personnel, dating back to the Revolution, Civil, WWI, II, Korea, an Vietnam. All proud to serve, and yes some unfortunately die. I can tell you, no one in my family was for the Vietnam war. This country has a very strong patriotism streak running through it, and the country spoke in the 60's/70's, there was no good reason to be fighting over there. Eventually public opinion and common sense won over and we did what Ali, Seegar, Dylan, and others were advocating for, we withdrew.

steamboat1 said:

Why a troll? Just because you disagree with the way I feel doesn't make it a troll. The draft ended the year I became eligible.

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Troll-ish because you dived into a simple thread about a deceased person who meant something to a lot of people and were compelled to piss on it. You knew it, and did it anyway.

Maybe you can go back & watch his cartoon reruns.

steamboat1 said:

Maybe you can go back & watch his cartoon reruns.

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Took care of that yesterday.

Didn't pay a lot of attention to his career as a kid but anytime Cosell was involved it was some funny unpredictable stuff.

From his last professional photo shoot, Apr 2016:

This shot was by far the most in character but Saw the OTHER series of "last " photos , his eyes were so incredibly sad as if he KNEW the end was near . The eyes are the window to the soul .

Lindsey Vonn posted this pic.

Dance like a butterfly except when on skis.......

deadheadskier said:

Dance like a butterfly except when on skis.......

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Arms flailing is kinda butterfly-like

SkiFanE said:

Lindsey Vonn posted this pic.

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He has the first rule of skiing nailed though...he's smiling.

Seems like he might have been a good golfer:

http://www.thepostgame.com/awesome-story-when-muhammad-ali-went-golfing