Spruce Triple - Sunday River, ME

drjeff · Aug 18, 2016

The unknowns (publicly at least for now) are can/does Dopp have the components for the new lift either mostly made, or have the production capability to do so quickly right now? And how much foundation construction and pouring work needs to be done?

The actually lift assembly part can be done in a few weeks once the concrete for the foundations has adequately cured, and the parts are on site. It's not like SR will have to start from scratch completely clearing an new lift line and/or base/summit terminal areas with Spruce.

Heck, when I was out in Montana last week at Big Sky, the 2 new Dopp's that they're installing this summer, a new triple and a new bubble six pack, only had the foundation work completed and a bunch of parts on-site, and the guide we had for our trip to the summit of Lone Peak told us that they fully anticipate having both lifts up and running for their opening day the week before Thanksgiving. This is also what i witnessed 1st hand at Mount Snow when the installed the Bluebird. The actually lift assembly part, which was effected by the devasting effects that Tropical Storm Irene brought to the area the last weekend of August that year, didn't begin until Mid September, and the lift was completed, certified and ready for operation by Thanksgiving.

If SR can get the parts from Dopp, and they don't have to do too much concrete work (i.e. can the tower foundations be used again), then an operational Spruce this season should be able to happen at some point

doublediamond · Aug 18, 2016

drjeff said:
If SR can get the parts from Dopp, and they don't have to do too much concrete work (i.e. can the tower foundations be used again), then an operational Spruce this season should be able to happen at some point

I'll bet anything none of the existing footings a reused. They've confirmed the cause was grout failure. ***IF*** a tower collapsed while in operation, SR/Boyne/CNL would be killed by the lawyers.

doublediamond · Aug 18, 2016

IIRC both high speed triples use standard HSQ terminals. All that's needed is to put a different hanger arm on the chairs. The Dopp bales are the same between HS and FG lifts these days (no more x-CTEC design to FG lifts and x-Dopp design to HS lifts).

But if you're spending that amount of money, you'd just put fewer chairs on the lift. You improve loading and can keep larger families together. A family of 2 and 3 still fit on a quad. A family of 4 can now sit together. And a family of 5 or 6 would still need to take a 2nd chair.

Jully · Aug 18, 2016

drjeff said:
The unknowns (publicly at least for now) are can/does Dopp have the components for the new lift either mostly made, or have the production capability to do so quickly right now? And how much foundation construction and pouring work needs to be done?

The actually lift assembly part can be done in a few weeks once the concrete for the foundations has adequately cured, and the parts are on site. It's not like SR will have to start from scratch completely clearing an new lift line and/or base/summit terminal areas with Spruce.

Heck, when I was out in Montana last week at Big Sky, the 2 new Dopp's that they're installing this summer, a new triple and a new bubble six pack, only had the foundation work completed and a bunch of parts on-site, and the guide we had for our trip to the summit of Lone Peak told us that they fully anticipate having both lifts up and running for their opening day the week before Thanksgiving. This is also what i witnessed 1st hand at Mount Snow when the installed the Bluebird. The actually lift assembly part, which was effected by the devasting effects that Tropical Storm Irene brought to the area the last weekend of August that year, didn't begin until Mid September, and the lift was completed, certified and ready for operation by Thanksgiving.

If SR can get the parts from Dopp, and they don't have to do too much concrete work (i.e. can the tower foundations be used again), then an operational Spruce this season should be able to happen at some point

The post says that Dopp will need to manufacture at least some of the parts and that will be the main determination on the timeline for the new lift installation. For $2.1 million I would assume that it is an almost completely new install as that is pretty close to the $1.7 million Middlebury paid for their new Dopp triple a few years ago.

Hopefully, regardless of the new installation timeline, SR removes the chairs currently lying on the ground so we can ski under the old lift this winter.

steamboat1 · Aug 18, 2016

drjeff said:
The unknowns (publicly at least for now) are can/does Dopp have the components for the new lift either mostly made, or have the production capability to do so quickly right now? And how much foundation construction and pouring work needs to be done?

The actually lift assembly part can be done in a few weeks once the concrete for the foundations has adequately cured, and the parts are on site. It's not like SR will have to start from scratch completely clearing an new lift line and/or base/summit terminal areas with Spruce.

Heck, when I was out in Montana last week at Big Sky, the 2 new Dopp's that they're installing this summer, a new triple and a new bubble six pack, only had the foundation work completed and a bunch of parts on-site, and the guide we had for our trip to the summit of Lone Peak told us that they fully anticipate having both lifts up and running for their opening day the week before Thanksgiving. This is also what i witnessed 1st hand at Mount Snow when the installed the Bluebird. The actually lift assembly part, which was effected by the devasting effects that Tropical Storm Irene brought to the area the last weekend of August that year, didn't begin until Mid September, and the lift was completed, certified and ready for operation by Thanksgiving.

If SR can get the parts from Dopp, and they don't have to do too much concrete work (i.e. can the tower foundations be used again), then an operational Spruce this season should be able to happen at some point

As you said Big Sky (another Boyne operated resort) is having the same exact lift being built right now. I'd think Dopp is already set up for production.

doublediamond · Aug 18, 2016

Jully said:
For $2.1 million I would assume that it is an almost completely new install as that is pretty close to the $1.7 million Middlebury paid for their new Dopp triple a few years ago.

The going rate for a 4000 ft Dopp FG lifts is now $3M. Old Spurce was 4300 ft. The incremental cost between a triple and quad is pennies.

The also-late-ordered Mittersill Double was over $2.6M. The price SR is paying is a bargain. Something's reused. A terminal goes for $800k, which is close to the discount amount.

Jully · Aug 18, 2016

doublediamond said:
The going rate for a 4000 ft Dopp FG lifts is now $3M. Old Spurce was 4300 ft. The incremental cost between a triple and quad is pennies.

The also-late-ordered Mittersill Double was over $2.6M. The price SR is paying is a bargain. Something's reused. A terminal goes for $800k, which is close to the discount amount.

Interesting. I did not know that. They must be reusing something then, yeah. That makes a lot of sense too because this lift is substantially cheaper than SL's Skyline was a few years ago.

machski · Aug 18, 2016

doublediamond said:
I'll bet anything none of the existing footings a reused. They've confirmed the cause was grout failure. ***IF*** a tower collapsed while in operation, SR/Boyne/CNL would be killed by the lawyers.

Don't bet that. As I have already posted previous, half the tower tubes and footings for the Dopp North Peak Express at SR are the original Borvig components reused with new cross arms, sheaves and lifting frames mounted from Dopp.

doublediamond · Aug 18, 2016

North Peak Triple was 12 years old when replaced with the HSQ and there was no hinting of any grouting issues. Tower tubes may be reused, but the footings certainly won't be.

ss20 · Aug 18, 2016

doublediamond said:
I'll bet anything none of the existing footings a reused. They've confirmed the cause was grout failure. ***IF*** a tower collapsed while in operation, SR/Boyne/CNL would be killed by the lawyers.

I'm in agreement with this. It's all about the public's perception.

Skyline- repairing a de-ropement is theoretically as simple as hanging the line back on, twisting some chairs back, and adding better cable-catchers on the towers. Nope, whole chair replaced.

King Pine- bearings and parts could've been replaced without putting in a whole new terminal. There was no damage of irreplaceable parts or structural damage, from my understanding.

So why do places go the extra-mile after accident-stricken lifts? Because the general public is stupid and resorts know they will refuse to ride a lift that is supposedly dangerous.

It's the same reason why this will (more than likely) never operate again (especially after the ridiculous amount of NATIONAL media it received).

We're a smart bunch on here. Most of us spend more time on a skilift than in a car during the winter. We know there's most likely nothing else wrong with this lift...and that the accident was either a rare design flaw or Mother Nature eating away at the grout in an isolated area (the top terminal). The 95% of people who ride Spruce Peak have no idea...but they know there was a lift accident and they saw some disturbing images of it after it toppled over.

So my point...even though we know better...I'm sure SR and Boyne will put in new tower footings just to say that no part of the lift was re-used...and no part underground was re-used either.

machski · Aug 18, 2016

ss20 said:
I'm in agreement with this. It's all about the public's perception.

Skyline- repairing a de-ropement is theoretically as simple as hanging the line back on, twisting some chairs back, and adding better cable-catchers on the towers. Nope, whole chair replaced.

King Pine- bearings and parts could've been replaced without putting in a whole new terminal. There was no damage of irreplaceable parts or structural damage, from my understanding.

So why do places go the extra-mile after accident-stricken lifts? Because the general public is stupid and resorts know they will refuse to ride a lift that is supposedly dangerous.

It's the same reason why this will (more than likely) never operate again (especially after the ridiculous amount of NATIONAL media it received).

View attachment 20562

We're a smart bunch on here. Most of us spend more time on a skilift than in a car during the winter. We know there's most likely nothing else wrong with this lift...and that the accident was either a rare design flaw or Mother Nature eating away at the grout in an isolated area (the top terminal). The 95% of people who ride Spruce Peak have no idea...but they know there was a lift accident and they saw some disturbing images of it after it toppled over.

So my point...even though we know better...I'm sure SR and Boyne will put in new tower footings just to say that no part of the lift was re-used...and no part underground was re-used either.

I don't agree, they have now been on record saying the a replacing the summit terminal on Locke as it is of similar design. They are not replacing tower footings on that lift yet they have equated it with the other. Sand blast and repaint, new cross arms, sheaves and lift frames, most of public would never know the tower and footings are not new.

DoublePlanker · Aug 19, 2016

Why go the extra mile? If they are spending X dollars anyways and x+ Y dollars gets you a much longer lifetime of the lift, perhaps its a good business decision to save maintenance costs and future capital expenditures.

steamboat1 · Aug 19, 2016

DoublePlanker said:
Why go the extra mile? If they are spending X dollars anyways and x+ Y dollars gets you a much longer lifetime of the lift, perhaps its a good business decision to save maintenance costs and future capital expenditures.

Depends on who's flipping the bill for the new lift. CNL is looking to unload the place so if they're paying they wouldn't care about longevity. Boyne has a long term lease so if they're paying I'd assume they would care. I have no idea what the arrangement is between the two for lift replacement costs.

Jully · Aug 19, 2016

Agreed. Though at the same time, who knows what the Spruce bottom terminal was running in terms of maintenance every year? It could have been in pretty good shape.

machski · Sep 12, 2016

*Bump*
Looks like Aurora is the early season terrain this year. From today's report from the mountain:

And you know what comes after fall? Sweet, sweet wintertime. Our pre-season plans are shaping up nicely and this year we're changing things up and planning to open top to bottom on Aurora as soon as Mother Nature gives us the green light. We even modified our snowmaking infrastructure to allow for more guns along the trailside in those parts. Once we open (which is typically on or around Halloween), you'll head to South Ridge, take the Chondola to the top, and ski into Aurora basin for as many laps as you'd like before downloading in one of the Chondola's cozy red cabins.*

Following Aurora, we'll move back towards the eastern side of the resort to focus on Barker and Locke. By then construction on Locke's new top terminal should be coming to a close.

Wonder if they are just temporary modifications with splitter valves on the existing hydrants or additional hydrants and on which trails. Given they are now talking Halloween, I believe this means Killington will not have a challenge from SR this season for earliest possible opening.

ss20 · Sep 12, 2016

machski said:
Wonder if they are just temporary modifications with splitter valves on the existing hydrants or additional hydrants and on which trails. Given they are now talking Halloween, I believe this means Killington will not have a challenge from SR this season for earliest possible opening.

I think they only reference Halloween because that's typically their opening day. You can't say Killington won't be a challenge.

Both have reasons to push early season this year-
SR wants to regain passholders trust who may be sour over not having Spruce this year.
Killington wants to get North Ridge open so they can get to Superstar ASAP for the World Cup race Thanksgiving.

Ma Nature decides who wins. Either way the two resorts will likely open up within 24 hours of each other.

steamboat1 · Sep 12, 2016

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showth...ight=killington+will+open+before+sunday+river

Edd · Sep 13, 2016

Interesting. They'll have to run a double out of Aurora back to North Peak. That would be 3 lifts running. The other option would be to have snow on Kansas to skate back to the Chondola. I wonder if they'll use the NP lodge for food services as well.

Newpylong · Sep 13, 2016

I doubt they will run the Triple. Likely Paradigm down into Aurora, the Aurora Quad and Lights Out to get back. As for Aurora, likely Northern Lights?

machski · Sep 13, 2016

Last year when Aurora opened early, it was Paradigm in, Northern Lights and Airglow in Aurora with Lights Out back to Chondi (which you could kind of lap with Paradigm for three different runs). Add to that, they just posted this to Facebook:

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