Death @ Stowe on Tuesday likely from snow immersion

BenedictGomez · Feb 16, 2017

This sad story serves as a reminder to stay close to your tree-skiing buddies when the woods get deep. RIP.

STOWE, Vt. - A day after a UVM student died in the woods at the Stowe Mountain Resort, ski patrollers are saying he didn't do anything wrong. Brett Cohen, 22, died from injuries he sustained, after spending eight hours trapped in deep snow.

http://www.wcax.com/story/34514292/snowboarding-death-illustrates-dangers-of-deep-snow

Zermatt · Feb 16, 2017

Not doing anything wrong? Um, getting buried in snow with no ability to free yourself doesn't count?

Obviously a horrible accident, but he was in conditions that exceeded his ability to safely handle.

Not Sure · Feb 16, 2017

"Anybody can be at risk from snow immersion, being trapped. However, snowboarders seem to be at higher risk because it's more difficult to get out of the bindings," Wagner said. "This probably happens more often than we know."

RIP

Smellytele · Feb 16, 2017

billo said:
Not doing anything wrong? Um, getting buried in snow with no ability to free yourself doesn't count?

Obviously a horrible accident, but he was in conditions that exceeded his ability to safely handle.

This is an asinine comment to say it exceeded his ability to safely handle. Expert skiers wipe out on blue trails. Saying that anyone who wipes out on any trail is exceeding their ability to safely handle it. His issue was that he was in the trees with no one else it seems.

dlague · Feb 16, 2017

Well obviously he was kind of alone orherwise his friend would have had a bit of a clue. Why it is important to stop and do check points in the trees or even on normal runs. That is a terrible way to go.

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ironhippy · Feb 16, 2017

dlague said:
Why it is important to stop and do check points in the trees or even on normal runs.

So you are saying we should be participating in multiple safety meetings per trail?
I like the way you think

edit: that was in bad taste, it is really sad to hear stuff like this.

SIKSKIER · Feb 16, 2017

billo said:
Not doing anything wrong? Um, getting buried in snow with no ability to free yourself doesn't count?

Obviously a horrible accident, but he was in conditions that exceeded his ability to safely handle.

Just a completley ignorant statement.Clearly you have never skied/snowboarded in snow so deep its dificult to extracate yourself.Granted my situation like this was out west but I twice had to be helped when I ended up head first downhill in bottomless snow.I couldn't right myself even with skis on.Took 10 minutes to get one ski off and only having my ski partner help me out stop my panic type situation.What a helpless feeling.This was on one of many catskiing trips and I soon found out why they always stress pairing up in the trees and watching out for each other.I also found out why they stress not using pole straps as my arms were imobilized.I finally got one pole off and had to make myself stop and rest to not panic.Dont make harsh judgements on something you know nothing about.I too thought this tree well thing was overplayed.Not anymore.

deadheadskier · Feb 16, 2017

I think folks are making way too many assumptions without knowing all the facts or witnessing what happened.

We don't know if he became asphyxiated right away. He could have been so buried that calls for help go unheard.

Skiing with partners in the trees helps, but sound in snow choked trees travels an extremely short distance. It is very easy to lose ski partners in large acreage tree skiing areas even with frequent stops. I typically make stops about every 20 turns in the trees while with a group to make sure people catch up. Anyone who has skied with me knows it's a priority of mine not to lose other people. That said, I recall a couple of season's ago skiing Anarchy/Julio at Killington on a powder day with Savemeasammy and MadMadWorld. I lost both of them easily. Stopped after my usual 20 turns, looked back and saw neither of them. Waited for a few, yelled out and heard nothing. Both those guys are great skiers who ski at the same pace I do. They simply tracked in a bit different direction and within 30 seconds we were separated out of ear shot.

As to the comment about this rider being in over his head? Just because an accident happened and someone dies or gets seriously injured doesn't mean they were in terrain over their head. Hell, I came damn close to a serious accident at Sugarloaf this past weekend and only through the luck of being able to grab a stump did it not go terribly wrong with me ragdolling off a ledge. I'm not one to puff my chest out about my skiing abilities, but I think anyone on here who has skied with me knows I'm capable of skiing pretty much anything in the East. Still, accidents happen and sometimes with tragic results. I take every precaution out on the hill and still know something like this could happen to me.

RIP young man. Condolences to his family and loved ones.

TheArchitect · Feb 16, 2017

Really sad to hear.

I'm making my first trip out west in a few weeks to Alta-Bird and I've been reading up on treewells. I'm skiing solo and don't plan to ski any trees unless they're reasonably well spaced. I was freaked out enough by the stories that I ordered a Avalung Element last night to take with me. After I placed the order I was telling myself that I'm probably overreacting and then I see this story. Money well spent.

RIP

eatskisleep · Feb 16, 2017

Wow terrible news and a scary situation. Rest in Peace.

Zermatt · Feb 16, 2017

SIKSKIER said:
Just a completley ignorant statement.Clearly you have never skied/snowboarded in snow so deep its dificult to extracate yourself.Granted my situation like this was out west but I twice had to be helped when I ended up head first downhill in bottomless snow.I couldn't right myself even with skis on.Took 10 minutes to get one ski off and only having my ski partner help me out stop my panic type situation.What a helpless feeling.This was on one of many catskiing trips and I soon found out why they always stress pairing up in the trees and watching out for each other.I also found out why they stress not using pole straps as my arms were imobilized.I finally got one pole off and had to make myself stop and rest to not panic.Dont make harsh judgements on something you know nothing about.I too thought this tree well thing was overplayed.Not anymore.

Actually very experienced skiing in very deep snow and well qualified to make this statement. I've also fallen in deep snow and know how scary it can be and how much effort it takes to get out. This article says it wasn't his fault. That's like skiing in avalanche terrain and getting caught by a slide you didn't trigger. Well, you were still in avalanche terrain.

Not Sure · Feb 16, 2017

deadheadskier said:
I think folks are making way too many assumptions without knowing all the facts or witnessing what happened.

We don't know if he became asphyxiated right away. He could have been so buried that calls for help go unheard.

Skiing with partners in the trees helps, but sound in snow choked trees travels an extremely short distance. It is very easy to lose ski partners in large acreage tree skiing areas even with frequent stops. I typically make stops about every 20 turns in the trees while with a group to make sure people catch up. Anyone who has skied with me knows it's a priority of mine not to lose other people. That said, I recall a couple of season's ago skiing Anarchy/Julio at Killington on a powder day with Savemeasammy and MadMadWorld. I lost both of them easily. Stopped after my usual 20 turns, looked back and saw neither of them. Waited for a few, yelled out and heard nothing. Both those guys are great skiers who ski at the same pace I do. They simply tracked in a bit different direction and within 30 seconds we were separated out of ear shot.

As to the comment about this rider being in over his head? Just because an accident happened and someone dies or gets seriously injured doesn't mean they were in terrain over their head. Hell, I came damn close to a serious accident at Sugarloaf this past weekend and only through the luck of being able to grab a stump did it not go terribly wrong with me ragdolling off a ledge. I'm not one to puff my chest out about my skiing abilities, but I think anyone on here who has skied with me knows I'm capable of skiing pretty much anything in the East. Still, accidents happen and sometimes with tragic results. I take every precaution out on the hill and still know something like this could happen to me.

RIP young man. Condolences to his family and loved ones.

1+
This kind of ties in with another Cannon death . Phone Ap "find friends " might work. For me skiing is a let down time and a lot of decisions of what trail to take are spontaneous. You would have to have your friends on the same page. Walkie talkies
would be an option, T4T uses a channel at Tucks ... not sure how many participants there are .
Looking at SL snowfall the woods are very filled in and it's easy to loose someone 100' away.

BenedictGomez · Feb 16, 2017

Smellytele said:
His issue was that he was in the trees with no one else it seems.

This is the part that puzzles me. The ski patrol claims he did "nothing wrong" here. Well, if that's true, his "friend" sure did. He was skiing between boundaries with a buddy. Okay. Where was the buddy then? Now I understand how VERY easy it is to get separated in the woods, it frankly happens to me more days than it doesn't, even when there's 3 or 4 or us skiing, but you stop and wait. Even if the friend made it all the way to the bottom, he doesn't immediately alert ski patrol? The area at Stowe this happened in was off the Cliff Trail, which is EASILY accessible, this wasn't 138 acres into backcountry. As I said, this genuinely puzzles me.

SIKSKIER said:
Clearly you have never skied/snowboarded in snow so deep its dificult to extracate yourself.

Yeah, it's a strange thing. I had a situation like this at Smuggs a few years back. We were between boundaries but in a non-mapped glade, and the snow was really deep (since it's unmarked and few know about it) where I fell. I had to kick my skis off, hold them, and swim/walk,crawl back to some firmness. I was not alone though, one of the snowboarders with me was laughing his azz off at me from about 40 yards downhill.

VTKilarney · Feb 16, 2017

BenedictGomez said:
Even if the friend made it all the way to the bottom, he doesn't immediately alert ski patrol?

How do you know that this was not immediately reported?

Here is what the article says:
Cohen went missing around 3:30 p.m., close to the end of the day, after a friend reported him missing.

The article doesn't say one way or the other how much of a delay there was in reporting the person missing. The article is worded rather poorly. Technically, the article says that the snowboarder went missing after he was reported missing.

Zermatt · Feb 16, 2017

You fall in a place where you can't fall and slide over a cliff and die, but you didn't do anything wrong.

Crazy the ski patrol says he didn't do anything wrong...might want to walk back that statement. Basically means Stowe will bare the liability if that is the case.

Also, not saying this couldn't happen to anyone, even the most experienced skiers, but liability solely rides with the snowboarder.

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VTKilarney · Feb 16, 2017

billo said:
Crazy the ski patrol says he didn't do anything wrong...might want to walk back that statement. Basically means Stowe will bare the liability if that is the case.

It's not binary. Sometimes accidents just happen.

dlague · Feb 16, 2017

I like your approach to the 20 turns or so. Our boys ski the woods and back country together and generally always know where each other are. However, one time at Jay Peak they got separated. One of our son's called us to let us know. We immediately went where we expected him to come out. About fifteen minutes later he called us to let us know where he was. Turns out he got turned upside down with his skies caught between two threes. He was lucky but it goes to show that separation can easily happen but they practiced escalation procedures.

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SIKSKIER · Feb 16, 2017

What some are not understanding here is that this doesn't have to be an accident at all.These things happen all the time by just falling wrong like downhill in deep snow.As I said before,all I did in my few incidents was a simple fall in bottomless snow.Certainly not an "accident".If you've never done this in super deep snow then you have no idea how hopeless it feels.There is nothing to push against for leverage to move until (hopefully) you have a ski to use as a platform if your lucky enough to still have them near you.Then one avi/slide I got caught in took both my skis many hundred feet above where I came to rest.The guides and the others skiers were able to help me out of the waist deep debris I was stuck in.Just a fall is all it takes,not an accident.

dlague · Feb 16, 2017

SIKSKIER said:
What some are not understanding here is that this doesn't have to be an accident at all.These things happen all the time by just falling wrong like downhill in deep snow.As I said before,all I did in my few incidents was a simple fall in bottomless snow.Certainly not an "accident".If you've never done this in super deep snow then you have no idea how hopeless it feels.There is nothing to push against for leverage to move until (hopefully) you have a ski to use as a platform if your lucky enough to still have them near you.Then one avi/slide I got caught in took both my skis many hundred feet above where I came to rest.The guides and the others skiers were able to help me out of the waist deep debris I was stuck in.Just a fall is all it takes,not an accident.

I get it! We were skiing Jay Peak again and it snowed 51 inches in three days. We decided to ski some trees and about mid way through Andres she ducked a branched and submarined her skis and she went face down with skis still on. I happen to be skiing behind her and she literally could not find a base to push up from and her skis were stuck. I took my skis off to help and sunk to my waist. It was insane. Obviously we got out but it did make us think about the situation.

I think many take these situations for granted like nothing will happen but this serves as a case and point. In this case he might have done the same and dipped too much in the brook and no telling how he impacted either.

Smellytele · Feb 16, 2017

SIKSKIER said:
What some are not understanding here is that this doesn't have to be an accident at all.These things happen all the time by just falling wrong like downhill in deep snow.As I said before,all I did in my few incidents was a simple fall in bottomless snow.Certainly not an "accident".If you've never done this in super deep snow then you have no idea how hopeless it feels.There is nothing to push against for leverage to move until (hopefully) you have a ski to use as a platform if your lucky enough to still have them near you.Then one avi/slide I got caught in took both my skis many hundred feet above where I came to rest.The guides and the others skiers were able to help me out of the waist deep debris I was stuck in.Just a fall is all it takes,not an accident.

Is a fall not an accident? I believed Billo is saying it is.

Death @ Stowe on Tuesday likely from snow immersion

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