Switzerland: The Land of Cool Ski Lifts

In the US we've traditionally thought of mountains as these remote barriers of wilderness slowing pioneers down on the march to manifest destiny. Not that they don't have some pristine areas in the Alps, but to a much greater extent they have populated their mountains and developed stuff in, around and atop all kinds of mountainous terrain. Mountains are so deeply embedded in the culture over millennia that they are like backyard playgrounds. Yet, Mont Blanc near Chamonix is nearly 16,000 feet high and everywhere the Alps are much more jagged and forbidding-looking than any mountains we have in the US. There are no-name ski areas with 3000 feet of vertical around every bend in the road. My favorite word for the Alps: VERTICALITY.

This shot by thetrailboss does a nice job of capturing the mountains, culture, and technology of the Alps:

Scruffy said:

I was in Chamonix in Jan. and our guide pointed to a spot just a little off piste and stated that one of his buddies was still buried in a crevasse just over there. Well, where he was pointing to looked like any open ungroomed bowl area in any of our more western terrain, but he knew that a glacier runs under that seemingly docile looking slope, and he knew where the hidden crevasses where.

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Reminded me of this, at 6:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUvvjYP5aZY

rocks860 said:

Forget town to town, at zermatt you can ski from Switzerland to Italy

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At Cham you can ski from France into Italy or From France into Switzerland.

Again nice Pictures and stories Trailboss. This is what I wish this forum had more of. It totally motivates me to go to other places.

Hawk said:

At Cham you can ski from France into Italy or From France into Switzerland.

Again nice Pictures and stories Trailboss. This is what I wish this forum had more of. It totally motivates me to go to other places.

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Thanks Hawk! Another installment coming soon. Perhaps one more after that!

BenedictGomez said:

Is it easy to get lost skiing in Europe? Some of those areas are so massive I dont even know how you'd decide where to go. And when you ski from one town to two towns over, I guess there are taxis to take you back to your base hotel?

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A typical taxi ride from one valley to the other (sometimes in different countries) would be 1h30 long and cost upward of 200 euros. You do this because you fucked up and not because you planned it. Those are big ass mountains, and even though the villages might only be 20km apart in a straight line, they may be 100 km apart using twisted roads that are gonna make you sick.

fbrissette said:

A typical taxi ride from one valley to the other (sometimes in different countries) would be 1h30 long and cost upward of 200 euros. You do this because you fucked up and not because you planned it. Those are big ass mountains, and even though the villages might only be 20km apart in a straight line, they may be 100 km apart using twisted roads that are gonna make you sick.

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This seems a lot less romantic than it did 10 minutes ago.

For instance, here's an interesting multi-nation, numerous town, trailmap that looks both awesome as well as intimidating.


http://live.skiplan.com/moduleweb/2.0/live.php?station=champery&resort=pds

thetrailboss said:

Another installment coming soon. Perhaps one more after that!

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Keep em' coming! Love looking at ski trip pics.

So how does it work with passports and things like that when you can ski from one country to another?

This is all very fascinating and I agree, keep the pics and stories coming!

cdskier said:

So how does it work with passports and things like that when you can ski from one country to another?

This is all very fascinating and I agree, keep the pics and stories coming!

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Can't tell you as the connection to Cervinia was closed.

I've only been lucky enough to make it to Europe to ski once, which was in the Jungfrau region. Unfortunately I was 9 years old and don't remember much from it other than the revolving restaurant on top of the Schilthorn and what must have been the biggest scare of my father's life as a parent. We went over because the High School my mother taught at had a class trip. Chaperones could bring their families, so we went. They did have numerous Trams, Gondolas and ski trains back then, but the vast majority of lifts were T-Bars. This was always a challenge as my father was 6' and I probably 4' at the time, so it was difficult to balance the bar behind us.

The whole area is massive beyond comprehension like others have described other European areas here.

https://cdn.snowplaza.nl/content/WinterPanos/2500/12161.jpg

If you look over on the Schilthorn side to the right, the Riggli lift was an extremely steep T-Bar when we there. My dad and I decided to ski the blue slope down while my mother relaxed at the restaurant at Birg. We tried to go up the T-Bar two times and fell off each time, having to ski down and start over. The third time we made it to what appeared to be only a few hundred feet from the top. I was so frustrated I told my dad we should walk. We make it about 100 feet and I completely passed out cold from the altitude and exertion. Luckily, some Frenchmen came skiing by, saw my father panicked over me and offered some smelling salts to wake me. He stayed with us until I was ready ski, went down to the bottom with us and helped me ride the T-Bar to the top. I can only imagine what I would feel like to be on the side of some mountain in a foreign land with my young son passed out.

I didn't know this until just now looking up the Schilthorn, but it is home to the largest amateur ski race in the world called the Inferno. It first started in 1928. 1850 racers on a course that is 9.26 miles long covering 6463 vertical feet.

Of course the Schilthorn is most famous for the scene from James Bond "On Her Majesty's Secret Service."

cdskier said:

So how does it work with passports and things like that when you can ski from one country to another?

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They have open boarders or did when I went in the late 90's - no need for passports.

Smellytele said:

They have open boarders or did when I went in the late 90's - no need for passports.

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Open boarders? So does MRG and Deer Valley have closed boarders?

:wink:

[Borders]

Smellytele said:

They have open boarders or did when I went in the late 90's - no need for passports.

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Correct. The entire euro zone (and more specifically the Shengen economic area) is Passport free. Switzerland (part of Shengen but not EU) still has border crossings and patrols where you could be stopped but you typically just go by in your car at slow speed.

goldsbar said:

Curious to hear an answer to Kusty's question. I always hear stories about skiing in the Alps being on-piste only unless you have a guide. Horror stories about anything off a groomed run can avalanche. Terrain looks awesome, but I can't see going just for some groomers - though really nice looking groomers!

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There is not much difference with the US. The best know ski areas are much larger and typically interconnect several valleys and Villages. You have to be careful to end up in the wrong place at the end of the day.

Most of the resorts have in-bound areas very well-marked and you won't end up out-of-bound inadvertently. So it is certainly not true that you're in danger if you're not on groomers. In a big bowl they will groom one line like they do out west. All in-bound terrain is controlled for avalanche. You could still have your freak avalanche (like in Tignes 2 weeks ago) but the same is true out West.

Having said that, the major resorts are high up in the Alps and most of the out of bound is heavily glaciated. Managing avalanches is one thing, travelling on glaciers requires a whole set of skills that cannot be acquired through a week-end of training (like your Avy level 1 training). As such you should not recommend going off-piste in the Alps without a guide and evac insurance (which is quite cheap). Crossing a rope in a resort, if only to ski a powder line 20 feet out-of-bound can cost you your life. Hidden crevasses are a lot sneakier than avalanches.

There are also a few resorts where guiding is mandatory. La Graves is the best example. It is lift serviced but everything is considered out-of-bound and mostly extreme. Chutes, long steep couloirs, mostly 40 degrees plus. Check this site for a description of some of the runs. Scary place.
http://www.skierslodge.com/the-skiing-2/legendary-routes/

Another example is anything off of the Aiguille du Midi cable car in Chamonix.

But otherwise most of the big resorts are set up exactly like in North-America. Just bigger. With much better food.

EDIT: with respect to LaGraves, awesome TGR video of the Y couloir.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7swEJNPd2g

deadheadskier said:

I didn't know this until just now looking up the Schilthorn, but it is home to the largest amateur ski race in the world called the Inferno. It first started in 1928. 1850 racers on a course that is 9.26 miles long covering 6463 vertical feet.

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We had our own Inferno.

http://newenglandskimuseum.org/remembering-toni-matt-and-the-1939-inferno/

fbrissette said:

A typical taxi ride from one valley to the other (sometimes in different countries) would be 1h30 long and cost upward of 200 euros. You do this because you fucked up and not because you planned it. Those are big ass mountains, and even though the villages might only be 20km apart in a straight line, they may be 100 km apart using twisted roads that are gonna make you sick.

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This is certainly not typical and things differ greatly with every ski area. When I went to Cham we skied from France into Switzerland over a ridge and down into the next valley. From there we had drinks and hopped on a train an was back in Cham in 15 minutes at a cost of like $8 Euro. Also in St Anton this past year we skied with a guide down the back side of the Rendl and caught a bus back to town for $5 euro. The guide also told us of other tours that you can take a taxi back at a cost of no more than $20 Euro. So it is different everywhere. It is my opinion from my 3 times to Europe that if you are a good skier and have good common sense and a decent sense of direction it is not a big deal to venture around as you learn the area. Obviously understanding the weather and conditions is key but that is just experience.

Hawk said:

This is certainly not typical and things differ greatly with every ski area. When I went to Cham we skied from France into Switzerland over a ridge and down into the next valley. From there we had drinks and hopped on a train an was back in Cham in 15 minutes at a cost of like $8 Euro. Also in St Anton this past year we skied with a guide down the back side of the Rendl and caught a bus back to town for $5 euro. The guide also told us of other tours that you can take a taxi back at a cost of no more than $20 Euro. So it is different everywhere. It is my opinion from my 3 times to Europe that if you are a good skier and have good common sense and a decent sense of direction it is not a big deal to venture around as you learn the area. Obviously understanding the weather and conditions is key but that is just experience.

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My point was aimed at the very large interconnected resorts (e.g. 3 vallées, Espace-Killy in France, 4 valleys in Switzerland). If your hotel is in Meribel and you end-up in Les Menuires (which is not that hard to do especially in bad weather), you're looking at quite the taxi ride. Otherwise, there are lots of sidecountry options in Europe with quick bus rides to your home base, notably in Chamonix. But Cham is not a large interconnected station like the other, and those sidecountry options are all (in my experience) out of bound.

You are correct, that if you're good with a map it's not complicated but the real terrain is always more complex than it appears on the ski map. When I ski in Europe, my rule is to go explore far in the morning and get back no later than mid afternoon to the local pod.

When you said typical I took it as that. I think Typical is not the correct word. It's more like occasionally. St Anton has 87 lifts and is over 27 miles end to end and is as big as the areas that you listed. At any given point when we skied there this year, if we went way out of bounds, the maximum ride back by taxi would be 40 minutes. Also the options at Cham I spoke about included skinning and hiking so I would not consider them side country. We had to climb over 1500 ft to get over the ridges. Just sayin. I don't think telling people that if you go out of bounds its 1.5 hours back is correct in most cases.

Hawk said:

When you said typical I took it as that. I think Typical is not the correct word. It's more like occasionally. St Anton has 87 lifts and is over 27 miles end to end and is as big as the areas that you listed. At any given point when we skied there this year, if we went way out of bounds, the maximum ride back by taxi would be 40 minutes. Also the options at Cham I spoke about included skinning and hiking so I would not consider them side country. We had to climb over 1500 ft to get over the ridges. Just sayin. I don't think telling people that if you go out of bounds its 1.5 hours back is correct in most cases.

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I would say it is good warning though. Sounds like telling people it is 15 minutes back isn't good practice either. 15 minutes to 1.5 hours is a pretty big range of possibilities. I would definitely air on the side of caution if it were me.

Hawk said:

When you said typical I took it as that. I think Typical is not the correct word. It's more like occasionally. St Anton has 87 lifts and is over 27 miles end to end and is as big as the areas that you listed. At any given point when we skied there this year, if we went way out of bounds, the maximum ride back by taxi would be 40 minutes. Also the options at Cham I spoke about included skinning and hiking so I would not consider them side country. We had to climb over 1500 ft to get over the ridges. Just sayin. I don't think telling people that if you go out of bounds its 1.5 hours back is correct in most cases.

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Fair enough. My comment about ending in the wrong valley was only directed at in-bound skiers, which is easy enough to do inadvertently if you don't pay attention. I assume that if you go out of bound, you know what you are doing.

While there is no universal definition of what backcountry/sidecountry is, in my book, sidecountry implies some skinning/bootpacking after using a lift. Synonymous to slackcountry. Chamonix is one of my favorite place in the world. The regular skiing is good, but the place really really shines for backcountry/sidecountry skiing.