MAX vs MCP?

Duncanator24 said:

$639 for Epic Local Pass. That is probably a better comparison in price/offerings.
http://www.snow.com/epic-pass/passes/epic-local-pass.aspx

I don't quite understand what "10 days combined" means for the restricted mountains. Meaning you can use the 10 days as you please at any of those, outside of the holidays?

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That is my understanding of the 10 combined days.

The way I see it, my skiing life consists of 4 different ski day 'types.' 1) Night skiing; 2) half day trips on weekend days when I have other things going on; 3) long weekends; 4) Multiday vacations. All passes in this thread are discussing options 3 and 4 for me.

At $639 for the Epic local, if you plan to use those 10 days at Stowe back east (assuming you can) that fulfills option 3 and then A-Basin, Breck, and the Tahoe areas compete with the Max and MCP destination offerings too

If Stowe doesn't turn out to be a crowded mess over the next few years, I'll have to really look into this option in the next few years. Couple $639 with a cheap night skiing pass nearby... then you're talking.

Lived the Mountain Collective dream until the Gedankenexperiment

I have not owned a ski pass since the former excellent $350 ASC passes to seven local mountains. The incredible diversity and value of the ASC pass ruined me, were forever afterward spending $2,000 on a pass to a single mountain seemed absurd by comparison. I was better off on other non-pass programs combined with advanced purchase day tickets.

Given all the recent changes this fall, I spent a lot of time evaluating ski passes again for the first time in decades.

The Mountain Collective immediately attracted me right away – Sugarbush, Aspen, Telluride, Banff, Chamonix and Japan. All my favorites and some exotics. Woohoo!

But then when I did the comparison of “Yeah – but how I would I actually ski on it” question for each of the available passes – the shine started coming off for MC.

Would I really pay for that long boring flight all the way to Japan for just a 2-day stay? Or likewise fly to France or Banff of Telluride for just 2 days of skiing?

Let’s say I’d go light and probably only ski 11 days at my local mountain Sugarbush all season. I’d pick my bonus 3rd day for there. So I’d have to buy 8 extra days at 50% off the WALK UP window price for $400.

Going light, I would probably put together just one trip for a week of skiing at Aspen on this pass. I’d get 2 days free but then have to buy another 5 days at 50% off full-inflated walk-up $164/day price for $400.

So $400 + $400 + $400 = $1200 for $110/ski-day. It was the most expensive pass for the least days of skiing, so it immediately dropped to the end of my list. One mountain plus one trip represented frugal skiing on an expensive pass, where ideally I'd want lots of skiing on a cheap pass.

Now if I owned a private jet and the company paid for the aviation fuel, or if I had beaucoup expiring air miles that I had to suddenly use for frivolous “Let’s all go to Japan for this weekend, and then let’s all go to Chamonix on next weekend” trips, this might be THE pass for me. Or Donald Trump. The dream was crushed. ☺

I can’t afford his aviation gas.

You've got expensive taste.

Teleskier said:

Sugarbush, Aspen, Telluride, Banff, Chamonix and Japan. All my favorites and some exotics. Woohoo!

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So it's beneath you to bother with Alta, Snowbird, Snowbasin, which only requires ONE boring SHORT flight?

Would I really pay for that long boring flight all the way to Japan for just a 2-day stay? Or likewise fly to France or Banff or Telluride for just 2 days of skiing?

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4 days in Banff.

abc said:

So it's beneath you to bother with Alta, Snowbird, Snowbasin, which only requires ONE boring SHORT flight!

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Never been to Utah so it simply wasn't on my radar as a first-thought travel destination.

I believe I did take a quick look at the time and saw Alta was a 2-hour drive from Snowbasin, so it'd be a rental car drive between and just two nights in two different hotels to ski each place, which again seemed like more overhead and less skiing. I had listed Snowbird as WY - a typo in my "where are these places?" list. (None of the pass websites make it easy to see in what state all these new-names-to-me places exist, which place is Wisconsin vs Wyoming vs Idaho vs Michigan vs ???, where it took a while to fill out my own list for what states are on what pass).

abc said:

4 days in Banff.

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The MC website still says "2 days at Banff Sunshine" - what am I missing?

Japan and France are two days only - no 50% off option for them, forgot to also mention that in my last post.

Teleskier said:

The MC website still says "2 days at Banff Sunshine" - what am I missing?

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You're missing the 2 days at Lake Louise.

(but if you want to nitpick, Lake Louise is another 20 minutes from Sunshine, by bus)

Never been to Utah so it simply wasn't on my radar as a first-thought travel destination.

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I don't want to be harsh. But it's really hard not to in this case. Because your complain were base largely out of ignorance. And a rather glaring ignorance to say the least.

MCP isn't about exotics. All of its mountains (in North America at least) are well known (to the well-traveled skiers), top tier mountains on just about every avid skier's bucket list.

You don't have to like lobster. But to say they cost far too much for being just big shrimps, is entirely off the mark.

(I'm quite shocked that you being teleskier know nothing about Alta. It's MRG on steroid! Something like 5 times the size, 10 times the snow, not a single snowboarder!)

Teleskier said:

I have not owned a ski pass since the former excellent $350 ASC passes to seven local mountains. The incredible diversity and value of the ASC pass ruined me, were forever afterward spending $2,000 on a pass to a single mountain seemed absurd by comparison. I was better off on other non-pass programs combined with advanced purchase day tickets.

Given all the recent changes this fall, I spent a lot of time evaluating ski passes again for the first time in decades.

The Mountain Collective immediately attracted me right away – Sugarbush, Aspen, Telluride, Banff, Chamonix and Japan. All my favorites and some exotics. Woohoo!

But then when I did the comparison of “Yeah – but how I would I actually ski on it” question for each of the available passes – the shine started coming off for MC.

Would I really pay for that long boring flight all the way to Japan for just a 2-day stay? Or likewise fly to France or Banff of Telluride for just 2 days of skiing?

Let’s say I’d go light and probably only ski 11 days at my local mountain Sugarbush all season. I’d pick my bonus 3rd day for there. So I’d have to buy 8 extra days at 50% off the WALK UP window price for $400.

Going light, I would probably put together just one trip for a week of skiing at Aspen on this pass. I’d get 2 days free but then have to buy another 5 days at 50% off full-inflated walk-up $164/day price for $400.

So $400 + $400 + $400 = $1200 for $110/ski-day. It was the most expensive pass for the least days of skiing, so it immediately dropped to the end of my list. One mountain plus one trip represented frugal skiing on an expensive pass, where ideally I'd want lots of skiing on a cheap pass.

Now if I owned a private jet and the company paid for the aviation fuel, or if I had beaucoup expiring air miles that I had to suddenly use for frivolous “Let’s all go to Japan for this weekend, and then let’s all go to Chamonix on next weekend” trips, this might be THE pass for me. Or Donald Trump. The dream was crushed. ☺

I can’t afford his aviation gas.

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While I agree with the general sentiment of your complaint, ABC is right in her critique. There are a few linked areas:
- Salt Lake City (3 areas within a 90 minute drive of the city). Flights are cheap via Delta or Jet Blue.
- Banff (2 areas within 30 minutes of one another and Revelstoke possible if you get a rental car and drive).
- Mammoth/Squaw (ABC turned me onto this earlier in the the thread.

My main issue is that those are it for > 2 day 'destinations' on the MCP. Additionally, I prefer parking myself at one resort for a week. I'd rather not have to deal with a rental car too. That being said my preferences are certainly not for everyone. I want to get 20+ days out of a pass which is easier to do with Max.

MCP has some incredible mountains though. Every year I look at it with wanderlust. Max is just a better deal for ME right now. MCP is getting a little better every year though and has always been a great deal IMO.

abc said:

I don't want to be harsh.

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Clearly I bruised your feelings about Utah, which from your tone and comments about Utah not being good enough is some sort of apparent inferiority complex you’ve felt before me but for some reason are mapping onto me.

FWIW, I wouldn’t jump down someone’s throat because they didn’t know how far Klein Innsbruck was from Blue Hill or confuse Sugarbush for Maine and Sugarloaf for Vermont (happens all the time) if it is not their home area like it is mine. Educate. Be a guide, not a jerk.

I also don’t want to turn this into a pissing match of who is the more travelled skier. I probably ski in different circles than you where most of my areas have largely been in Europe, and yours sound like they are probably States based. American Exceptionalism much? I could get all pissy about you not knowing one classic Austrian mountain from another, but we’re different.

If you didn’t have to look up where places like Wilmot or Buck Hill or Thredbo ski areas on the long list of portfolio of places on each pass, then very good for you.

Your take on MC is different from mine.

For you it’s ... “It has Utah – for two short days each at three places - I’m all set”.

Fine.

My take (like many others if you read external reviews) is that this IS a pass of exotics (and, apparently, separately, according to you, Utah) where you have ONE east coast area for 2-days, one place in Japan for 2-days, one place in France for 2-days, one place in New Zealand for 2-days, one place in Australia for 2-days, one place in Wyoming for 2-days, one place in California for 2-days, one place in Idaho for 2-days. Etc.

Sorry if this sounds like someone wanting to give social media bragging rights to their friends for how they: “Buffy and I flew into Telluride for the weekend.” And then we flew to Japan for the weekend. Then France for the weekend. “Yes – I’ve been to ‘all’ the ski places”. And really explored them fully in your two short days, I'm sure.

"If it's Tuesday, it must be skiing in Japan"

Have fun at your two days at all these places, and your six days driving around Utah for 2-days each.

You clearly travel differently from me. Your mileage will literally vary.

And lucky you – there’s a MC pass just for you. Enjoy It.

To me MAX and MCP are two quite different passes. MCP isn't ideal for someone that wants to ski primarily the east with only a trip or two out west. The allure of MCP though is the resorts themselves. They are all very appealing and desirable resorts. For someone that wants to go to those resorts, I think it can certainly be worth it. Even if there's a particular resort you want to ski at for more than 2 days, with the 50% off it still is a decent deal as long as you don't make a habit of spending too many extra days at each resort. Would I personally buy this pass? No, but mainly because I don't want to have to commit to definitely making trips out west. The thing I do like though is that as a Sugarbush passholder, for no additional pass cost I get the 50% off benefit at other MCP resorts. So if I do decide to take a trip, I'm at least getting discount tickets with no additional early up front non-refundable charges or commitments.

MAX on the other hand has a pretty good mix of resorts for an eastern skier. Out west it certainly has several appealing resorts as well, and since you get 5 days at each resort, you don't need to be concerned with the fact that very few of the western resorts on the pass are close to each other. You can just pick one resort and spend a week or long weekend there. It is more money than MCP, but you get a lot more free days as well included. I said it at some point on this forum before, but with the addition of the NY resorts, this pass would have been ideal for me years ago before I made Sugarbush my home mountain. It has many of the eastern resorts that I typically either did day trips (Belleayre) or long weekend trips to (Gore, WF, K, Pico).

Either way, I think it is great that people have options and can pick what fits their own personal needs the best.

abc said:

But each one of the MCP resorts are really "top tier" mountains, while the 44 on MAX are a grab bag of mole hills many would just drive right by without stopping.

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Going back to your original post, you ask for people's opinions, but then jump down their throats when they offer them to you.

I will also point out that your judgmental rant about other "drive by" mountains that you feel are lesser is pretty off-putting.

And if you think this short list of primarily North American MCP-only mountains is really the whole list of "top-tier" mountains in the world, I think it is you who have some world traveling to do. The world is bigger than the counties in Utah.

The primary difference I see between the two is that for someone from the Northeast the Max is a great option as a primary pass. The MC is more a supplemental pass to provide some affordable skiing out west and adding Sugarbush.

There are some Northeastern skiers who might find the MC a more attractive option of the two. I'm specifically thinking of folks who are rooted at Jay who want to take a western vacation. For a Jay passholder, they spend $400 on a MC pass and get cheap skiing on a six day Utah trip plus 3 days at Sugarbush within a reasonable drive. None of the eastern mountains on Max would make sense to them.

Sent from my XT1565 using AlpineZone mobile app

Teleskier said:

And if you think this short list of primarily North American MCP-only mountains is really the whole list of "top-tier" mountains in the world, I think it is you who have some world traveling to do. The world is bigger than the counties in Utah.

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I'd like to point out you're on a North American ski & snowboard forum. Its name "Northeast" refers to the northeast of what? Of the US! Not the northeast of Europe or Japan!

So yes, that short list IS the top tier mountains of North America. Is that beneath you that we focus on mountains of this continent instead of the whole world?

Going back to your original post, you ask for people's opinions, but then jump down their throats when they offer them to you.

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You expressed your "opinion" in a rather condescending tone in your first post. I gave you the benefit of doubt that it was in jest. So I responded with the same. But it seems you couldn't quite take it nearly as well as you give.

Teleskier said:

Clearly I bruised your feelings about Utah, which from your tone and comments about Utah not being good enough is some sort of apparent inferiority complex you’ve felt before me but for some reason are mapping onto me.

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Since you're brave enough to venture into groundless speculation of other people's "feeling", I'll follow through.

I see you put your home as Boston, and you have very low post count. So I would venture to guess you came recently over from Europe? If so, that would explain your lack of familiarity of north American mountains. It may even excuse your equally condescending tone in dropping some European mountain names.

But suppose this is indeed a world ski & snowboard forum, here's what you said "Never been to Zermatt (or Dolomite/Saint Anton/LaGrave/Trois Valley) so it simply wasn't on my radar as a first-thought travel destination."

Sorry, what you actually said was: "Never been to Utah so it simply wasn't on my radar as a first-thought travel destination."

You see, as resident of another gateway city, I do KNOW about many top tier European mountains by name, if not actually skied all of them, yet.

Teleskier said:

American Exceptionalism much?

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This is a Northeast USA skiing forum. Also USA has the best skiing in the world if you could only pick 1 country. Also USA is the best country on the planet.

Just 3 facts that occurred to me.

Jully said:

MCP has some incredible mountains though. Every year I look at it with wanderlust. Max is just a better deal for ME right now. MCP is getting a little better every year though and has always been a great deal IMO.

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Having had MCP for 2 years, I'm now paying the MAX list a bit more attention. If I were to do another road trip, it maybe on the MAX pass, to sample all the mountains I've never been to.

But with the Intrawest purchase, both pass would have some significant changes coming. So I'm going to just wait and see.

abc said:

Having had MCP for 2 years, I'm now paying the MAX list a bit more attention. If I were to do another road trip, it maybe on the MAX pass, to sample all the mountains I've never been to.

But with the Intrawest purchase, both pass would have some significant changes coming. So I'm going to just wait and see.

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Exactly my thinking. If things weren't changing I'd see myself trying out the MCP in the next few years. Hopefully the upcoming pass changes will make things even better! We'll have to see.

Regional variety passes are the wave of the future.

bdfreetuna said:

Regional variety passes are the wave of the future.

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Says whom?

deadheadskier said:

The primary difference I see between the two is that for someone from the Northeast the Max is a great option as a primary pass. The MC is more a supplemental pass to provide some affordable skiing out west and adding Sugarbush.

There are some Northeastern skiers who might find the MC a more attractive option of the two. I'm specifically thinking of folks who are rooted at Jay who want to take a western vacation. For a Jay passholder, they spend $400 on a MC pass and get cheap skiing on a six day Utah trip plus 3 days at Sugarbush within a reasonable drive. None of the eastern mountains on Max would make sense to them.

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Looking at the mountain list, MCP is more western focus while MAX is more eastern focus. That much is pretty clear.

But there're enough differences beyond just the mountain list to muddy-up the water...

With the addition of the Catskill mountains, MAX is very attractive to me. There're like 15 days within day trip distance of my home base! Of the western choices, Big SKy would be my first choice (though a PITA to get to). Brighton & Solitude are just as nice. And if I have extra time, I'd try Mt Bacholar. With its long season, I can combine it with other activities on the coast.

There's only one problem... I never ski that many days in the east. So the higher upfront cost may not be justified.

Sounds like Max pass will explode after next year. If you are ever going to try it, now may be the time.

I'm surprised the Peaks Pass hasn't been mentioned, which I see as a much more direct competitor to the Max Pass than the MCP. For under $500 per person for 7 mountains (granted only 4 in New England), it's a steal. For us it makes more sense than MCP because we have kids that still do seasonal ski programs (13 week program at Crotched). Max pass doesn't work for that reason.

kelly001 said:

I'm surprised the Peaks Pass hasn't been mentioned, which I see as a much more direct competitor to the Max Pass than the MCP. For under $500 per person for 7 mountains (granted only 4 in New England), it's a steal. For us it makes more sense than MCP because we have kids that still do seasonal ski programs (13 week program at Crotched). Max pass doesn't work for that reason.

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As much as I like Wildcat, comparing the terrain options between the passes, Max blows Peaks out of the water with the northeast areas alone. That said, I bought both of these passes for next winter.