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Has ski building technology essentially peaked?

deadheadskier

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BG's thread on Demo Bindings got me thinking on this topic again and it's something I've felt for awhile now. Basically that the technology than can be built into a ski peaked about 5-8 years ago. There really hasn't been anything "revolutionary" introduced in awhile. The models of skis you buy today are really no better than what you could buy 5-8 years ago, they're just different so the manufactures can market a new product. By my read, the last two big game changers in ski design were the introduction of shaped (parabolic - remember that word?) skis around the turn of the century and then rocker skis going mainstream about 8 years ago. Nothing much has changed since.

I think proof of this reality is that some ski companies are revisiting prior "hit" designs that they had moved away from. The two obvious current examples of this are Head with the Monster line and Nordica with Enforcers. The new Monsters and Enforcers aren't quite the same as the originals, but it would seem the two companies went back to those designs because the replacement models for the originals didn't sell nearly as well.

So, having said that, here's a few questions. I'll provide my answers in a follow up post.


1. Do you think there will be some new technology that revolutionizes ski building on the level that shaped or rockered skis have? A real game changer?

2. Absent of a real game changer in question 1, what are some incremental improvements in design you'd like to see?

3. What kind of mass market available ski design doesn't exist today that you wish did and would buy based upon your skiing preferences?
 

deadheadskier

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1. Do you think there will be some new technology that revolutionizes ski building on the level that shaped or rockered skis have? A real game changer?

2. Absent of a real game changer in question 1, what are some incremental improvements in design you'd like to see?

3. What kind of mass market available ski design doesn't exist today that you wish did and would buy based upon your skiing preferences?

1. I don't. Could be wrong, but for the most part, I can't think of a new technology being introduced that would dramatically alter my enjoyment of the product technology on the level that shaped and rockered skis have since the turn of the century.

2. Biggest one here for me would be some sort of new aged metal to apply to a ski's edge. If a company introduced a ski with a new age edge material that held it's edge longer and required tuning at less frequent intervals, I'd be psyched. This wish is all about saving tuning expense/time. Imagine buying a ski you didn't have to sharpen the edges for the entire season long? Hell, even one that was sharp as a knife after ten days out would be great. I notice a substantial drop off in edge grip after 3-4 days out following a tune on my skis.

3. A more bump focused hard snow ski as opposed to carving. Something with lots of camber, but less width in the shovel. As an example, the Head irally, which was the top rated hard snow ski in many tests last year has specs of 135mm tip, 76 waist, 114 tail. I'd like to get on a similarly constructed ski as the I.rally, but have dimensions more like 110 tip, 74 waist, 100 tail. Perhaps even less side cut than that. Maybe bump the middle width up into the low 80s and keep the other dimensions in a light weight, wood core, vertical sidewall design. Perhaps Rossi could reintroduce a new generation 4M in that design. ;)
 

Scruffy

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1) I don't believe that the shape or dimensions of the ski will be the next frontier, but materials that allow the same ski to behave differently based on external input and feed back, that's where there is plenty of room for innovation.

2) As far as the edge is concerned, I don't even care that the ski needs tuning, I care that when I hit a rock it chips and deforms. I'd love an edge that does not chip or deform. An edge that I can sharpen and return it to new without losing metal and shortening the life of the ski based on a loss of edge, when the rest of the ski is still lively.

3) A bump ski that can float in pow :grin:
 

dlague

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1. Do you think there will be some new technology that revolutionizes ski building on the level that shaped or rockered skis have? A real game changer?

2. Absent of a real game changer in question 1, what are some incremental improvements in design you'd like to see?

3. What kind of mass market available ski design doesn't exist today that you wish did and would buy based upon your skiing preferences?

I will answer all three at once. I think one of the core ideas is to lighten skis while still having the ability to bust through crud and chopped powder. Some ofnthe ideas are not to use as much metal in the ski but used less but putting it in the sidewalls. There is also more focus on stronger yet lighter woods. These ideas for creating skis that have torsional stiffness without being heavy is huge. I think over the past few years the All Mountain and Big Mountain skis are being designed to float, be stable at speed, carve on groomers and have versatility. Being able to have a ski that does it all will be the ore focus moving ahead. Specialized will still exist because in reality a race ski vs a bump ski vs a park ski vs a true powder ski all have a targeted focus and there will be those who want one of each.or some combination. But that is not what the industry needs since the sport is expensive enough.

My $.02. Why is the cents symbol not on keyboards any more?

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jack97

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I have a different take given the title of the thread...... "ski building technology". My answer is no, it has not peaked. first, the materials used will go through minor evolutionary changes but nothing major or industry changing. The next major step would be to make things with lower cost while either improving or keeping status quo with quality or precision. One can see that manufacturing technology has been trending this way in other products. In addition, some have already thought about, do I use a economical model of building lots of models that will sell at high volume or target a market with customization. Right now, we are seeing a niche market of customize skis where one can order a set with different features, dimension, flex pattern and camber (tradition and rocker). The drawback is cost, they go for around 1K a pair. Pending the size of the market and how much automation can be leveraged, the cost can be made lowered to find that sweet spot to sustain a bigger market.

btw, I have no dog in this fight, presently I can still find skinny mogul skis at my cost point. However, given the large number of options in the market and the need for model turnover, I can see how customization can come into play.
 

jack97

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thinking about it some while going through my morning workout......

If low cost customization become viable, it will make the brick and mortar ski shops relevant. They can act as the go between the customer to the manufacturing shop, making recommendation on the options available based on customer's input. The sales in not dependent on the models they have to sell but they are motivated on selling the skis with flexible features. Last time I was in a ski shop looking at skis to see (not buy) the latest models, I felt that he was just pushing rocker because that's all they had in the shop.

As for the beginners skis, there will always be a rental market where model turnover is not important. So ski shops can still stock these type of skis but its the population that wants to make that next step that the ski shop can address.
 

deadheadskier

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Interesting thoughts on customization, automation and production costs Jack.

I'll up the ante on those futuristic ideas. 3D printing! Will we see skis that are 3D printed someday? What if the brick and mortar ski shops become the actual manufacturer? The consumer goes to the shop with an idea of what they want and the shop can produce that product right there on the spot? This obviously goes against traditional construction techniques of wood cores, metal laminates, bases and top sheets, but who knows? Maybe 3D printing advances to the point that it can produce almost the entire product and the shop technician simply needs to attach the edges.

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benski

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I know a ski company claims to have developed skis that use a new core material that gets stiffer in crud and softer at other times. They are expensive. The company is also notable for the Bernie Sanders graphics on a few skis.
 

JimG.

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No way has technology peaked!

Within the next 20-30 years all human skiers will be replaced by robots. Much safer than human skiers.
 
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Need to disagree with your proof. Not as familiar with the Monsters, but the Enforcers share the name and roughly the same mid width, but are very different skis.

In touring skis there is still a long ways to go with lightening the ski. Think more advances will come for all skis in vibration dampening.
 

Glenn

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We had a pretty big breakthrough with shaped skis and powder boards. Think about how long we skied on straight skis....30 years? Sure, skis got a bit lighter, flexed differently and had different bindings. But skis from the 70's up to the early 90s were essentially the same.

I think now with the changes in technology; specifically electronics, we expect bit changes every few years. Not all industries operate the same.
 

jack97

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No way has technology peaked!

Within the next 20-30 years all human skiers will be replaced by robots. Much safer than human skiers.

Before the robots take over, Skynet will have to contend with the hybrids.... machine assisted humans.


 

kartski

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Graphene will eventually replace Carbon Fiber. Still real expensive. There was a Guy at work playing with it, he retired. I kept telling him I wanted a Race Chassie that weighed 30 LBS but could handle a 1000 Hp Motor and to keep working. Unfortunately, his goals were more in line with Semiconductor Research and not as a building material. https://graphene-supermarket.com/
 

mishka

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We had a pretty big breakthrough with shaped skis and powder boards. Think about how long we skied on straight skis....30 years? Sure, skis got a bit lighter, flexed differently and had different bindings. But skis from the 70's up to the early 90s were essentially the same.

I think now with the changes in technology; specifically electronics, we expect bit changes every few years. Not all industries operate the same.

breakthrough with shaped skis and powder boards is not imo changing technology or materials used it simply change in shape. New shaped skis was constructed the same way as a straight skis. I think for the most part technology wise skis build the same way as 20 years ago. Introductions new materials like carbon fiber,basslt and others did not change anything in technology how ski build
IIRC ski history class... introduction of cap construction to high-volume production which help manufacturers substantially lowers the cost of production that is somewhat change in technology… I think the same trend continue: make skis cheaper "new technology" only on paper
 

BenedictGomez

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Forget "ski technology", I'm still waiting for someone to revolutionize "ski carrying technology".

It seems like such a simple thing, but many have failed.

black-ski-tote-poles-portable-ski_1_aec8617535f27a31ce3593f6e3a031f6.jpg
 

cdskier

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How hard is it to carry your stuff? Skis in right hand/over shoulder, piles in left hand, transpack in my back....

I never realized this was an issue and thought people long ago realized there was no need for those things.
 

dlague

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How hard is it to carry your stuff? Skis in right hand/over shoulder, piles in left hand, transpack in my back....

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We used to carry stuff in a transpack but now we boot up at the truck throw the helmet on and all there is left is my poles and skis carried as you mentioned. Pretty easy. I saw transpacks or Dakine packs a lot back east but out here most boot up at the car. Most places do not have much space for boot bags.

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