Ski Magazine 2017-18 Eastern Resort Rankings - Page 5

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    Not really. Very slightly. That's where 'effective tax rate' comes into play, and Vermont's is one of the worst in the nation. Better than NJ, but still pretty bad.
    Let's use a real example. My 2 BR Condo in VT runs me about $2200 in taxes. A similarly sized 2BR condo in my town in NJ would run about $5800 in taxes. The assessed value of the example condo in NJ is a bit less than twice the assessed value of the VT condo, yet taxes are about 2.5 times higher.



    I'm not sure what you're referring to by "effective" tax rate. Bottom line the taxes on the condo in VT are substantially less in terms of real dollars than the similar one in NJ would be. The VT tax rate comes out to around 2% while the NJ one is about 2.5%. Those real values are pretty close to the "effective" values listed on the site you mentioned, so I'm not following how they are adjusting to account for property values being different in different states.

    You sure? That's DEFINITELY something I'd think about. Taxes, price appreciation of asset, etc... all of that. Cost would be a huge factor in my decision. For some people who are buying solely for every weekend trips, well then sure, because they cant fly every week. But if you're only making it on say 3 ski trips a year, that CO home you mention sounds pretty nice.
    Cost is a factor, yes. Tax rate is not. I pointed out in my example above that the taxes for a similar property are cheaper in VT vs NJ due to property values being lower even though rates are not terribly different. That's what I'm looking at to determine my perception of value and whether they are "expensive" or not.

    If you're buying a second home to use it for 3 ski trips a year, then you have other issues to begin with. I can't believe that is the normal target audience for a second home. So again, saying taxes are much cheaper in a state like CO is irrelevant because there are other factors that play a much bigger role in the decision than taxes alone. You buy a second home typically because it is in a location that you want to visit (usually often), not because of tax rates. If I wanted a place down the Jersey Shore (which I don't...but just an example as there are many people that do), I'm not going to buy a place in South Carolina instead just because they have lower property taxes.

    I'm not saying taxes don't matter, I'm just saying especially when it comes to second homes they are much less a factor compared to other things.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    While the tax rates may be high in Vermont (as is most of the northeast pretty much), real estate values in VT are lower than NJ, so ultimately you're still paying less taxes for a comparable home. Also for someone purchasing a second home, I don't see tax rates playing a big role in the decision. If you decide you want a vacation home in VT, you're not going to look at the rates and say "screw that, Colorado is much lower, I'll buy one there instead". Overall cost is a factor, sure, but most people would sooner look for a slightly less expensive house before they decide to buy a second home in a completely different state just to save on taxes.
    Agree 100%!

    The choice to buy a 2nd home is way, way, way more often about doing something to augment your enjoyment of life and getting to spend time with family and/or loved ones and friends. It rarely makes brilliant financial sense if one is honest. You often don't lament too much about the taxes because those are secondary compared to your enjoyment that you get from the 2nd home (at least as long as you and your family are regularly using it).

    As for this list, or any ski area ranking lists, my guess is that you could survey 100 people and get 100 different lists.....
    '07--08 season: 51 Days, '08-'09 season: 55 Days, '09-'10 season: 41 Days, '10-'11 season: 49 days, '11-'12 season: 40 Days '12-'13 season: 57 days, '13-'14 season, 60 days '14-'15 season 60 days, '15-'16 season 52 days, '16-'17 season: 50 days '07-'17 seasons: 515 Days

  3. #43
    I would consider the total cost (including taxes) if I'm looking for a second home. The primary driver would of course be what I want to do and where (I.e. if I live in NJ amd want a weekend beach house I won't buy a place in SC because of lower taxes). However, if there were comparable options in different states and the drive time and such did not vary significantly, then tax rate would absolutely matter.

    For instance, I'm in Boston, I'm lucky enough to have three different states with wonderful ski Resorts and towns within a reasonable drive distance. I would look seriously at places in Maine, North Conway New Hampshire, and something like Waitsfield Vermont. All have similar drive times, what I consider to be large top-tier resorts nearby, and so taxes and overall cost of real estate would absolutely play a big role in my final decision.

    That said, $2200 on a 2BR condo is not atrocious by any means IMO.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    I took it to mean that's where they now ski, but obviously if someone sells a Stowe 2nd home and then immediately buys a Waitsfield 2nd home taxes werent the key driver as they're not saving all that much.
    You thought they were evading Vermont real estate taxes by moving to Sugarbush. Stop kidding yourself.

  5. #45
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    Another popularity contest. Holiday should never be in the top 20 just based on terrain alone and Wachusett is just a 110 acre day area. The idea that Gore is once again missing from the top 20 while these 2 are in the top 20 indicates the silliness of this list.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post

    I'm not sure what you're referring to by "effective" tax rate.
    I'm referring to it because it's very important when comparing such things.

    Quote Originally Posted by benski View Post
    You thought they were evading Vermont real estate taxes by moving to Sugarbush. Stop kidding yourself.
    Huh? No, you misunderstood.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    I'm referring to it because it's very important when comparing such things.
    I didn't say "why", I said "what", as in please explain how they are calculating the "effective" rate to account for differences in real estate values for comparable properties in different states.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by cdskier View Post
    It varies year to year and town to town. In Warren and Waitsfield, the non-resident rate this year is slightly less than the resident rate (and in Warren has been this way for a couple years now if I remember correctly from my tax bill).
    Yes, the non-res. rate is lower in Fayston also, but residents can get a break based on income.

  9. #49
    I'm always surprised at how low Killington ends up on these lists. What is it that drives them low? They have the longest season, great nightlife, good snow making very varied terrain.

    Quote Originally Posted by WWF-VT View Post
    1. Smugglers Notch
    2. Sugarbush
    3. Mount Snow
    4. Tremblant
    5. Jay Peak
    6. Mad River Glen
    7. Sugarloaf
    8. Stowe
    9. Okemo
    10. Loon

    11. Bretton Woods
    12. Killington
    13. Whiteface
    14. Sunday River
    15. Stratton
    16. Holiday Valley
    17. Waterville Valley
    18. Cannon
    19. Wildcat
    20. Wachusett


    Many surprises this year - let the annual debate begin.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnardawg View Post
    I'm always surprised at how low Killington ends up on these lists. What is it that drives them low? They have the longest season, great nightlife, good snow making very varied terrain.
    I think some think that it is not very family friendly and just a party mountain with a bunch of hardos. Not saying I think that but have had others mention that they didn't like the clientele.
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