Where is the STEEPEST GROOMER in the east?

Does anyone know the history of Blue Knob. I know the resort was built on the land of the former AFB, just wondering who and what decided to subdivide all the land with 1000 of homesites. Does the resort own the condo's? It was always really odd to be driving around the mountain on the way up to the resort and seeing abandon homes along side the road.

bdfreetuna said:

It's too bad http://www.newenglandskihistory.com doesn't exist for Pennsylvania. I'm trying to find the history of Blue Knob -- because it looks like, on the trail map, there was a whole area to the left that's closed. Or else why would the map look like this? And I must say this is a beautiful map, really drives the imagination.

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I was wondering that too.

mbedle said:

Does anyone know the history of Blue Knob. I know the resort was built on the land of the former AFB, just wondering who and what decided to subdivide all the land with 1000 of homesites. Does the resort own the condo's? It was always really odd to be driving around the mountain on the way up to the resort and seeing abandon homes along side the road.

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Sorry for thread hijack.
Blue Knob is the second highest mtn in PA, elev 3120'. The region around Blue Knob is actually more mountainous looking than the highest peak in PA, Mt Davis, which is sort of an undistinguished rolling hillside in the Laurel Highlands near Seven Springs ski area in far western PA. The Blue Knob ski area was created in 1962 on the site of a former a USAF radar station that operated from 1952-1961. When I first skied there in 1967 several old USAF buildings on the summit of the mtn were being repurposed as motel rooms and work spaces. Maybe a few sheds, concrete foundations and perhaps a garage structure are about all that is left of the USAF station now.

There are several issues with Blue Knob that have stymied its development over the years. The area was relatively remote in the '60s and '70s and never attracted investors with enough capital to do a really thorough development job. A big chunk of the mtn including much of the actual ski terrain is state park land that the resort leases and this also limited development. Condos and private homes have been built on scattered parcels of private land near the slopes, but the fractured land availability lessened the potential to cohesively develop and profitize the resort. The ski area took advantage of a summit road and buildings that it inherited from the USAF, but this was a double edged sword because as one of the more northern "upside down" ski areas in the East the weather and road conditions are sometimes less than user-friendly. Also, an important function of the state owned land is that it's a watershed providing a source of water for neighboring jurisdictions and that has sometimes put a crimp on the availability of water for the resort to use for snowmaking.


All this has caused the resort to chronically struggle with finances and over the years it has been eclipsed by other mid-Atlantic mtns such as Seven Springs, Snowshoe, Massanutten, Wisp, the three SnowTime resorts in south-central PA, many Pocono resorts, etc. Having said all that, the terrain (1072' lift served vertical) at Blue Knob is comparatively challenging/superior, both the designated trails and the many gladed areas. This has always kept it on folks radar screens (pun intended), especially with advanced skiers/boarders. No doubt, the big fun of the burly terrain, especially all the glades, is only revealed in good natural snow conditions. Much of the terrain between the trails is skied when there's good snow. It's a little like Plattekill, Magic and MRG in that regard.

Here is an excellent history of the ski area by the Blue Knob Ski Patrol: http://www.blueknobskipatrol.org/detailed-historical-facts.html

My parents owned a vacation home about one mile from Blue Knob from ~1972-1987.

bdfreetuna said:

I must say this is a beautiful map, really drives the imagination.

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Yeah, I like that map much better than the guy's maps who does 90% of ski areas maps.

BenedictGomez said:

Yeah, I like that map much better than the guy's maps who does 90% of ski areas maps.

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Is that sarcasm or no...because I have SEVERAL James Niehues maps hanging up as art in my house :-D

Mount Snow and Whistler I have as full-size. I have a small Killington poster on loan to a friend. I have a small Loon one somewhere in my house, not too sure where atm. There's a great New Hampshire scene showing all of the Ski 93 NH areas I have as a fridge magnet. All done by Niehues.

Otto Schniebs apparently designed the Blue Knob trails, or at least the original ones.

James Niehues maps are great, obviously, but would he have painted this mountain as well? Who knows. Whoever did, did a nice job.

ss20 said:

Is that sarcasm or no...because I have SEVERAL James Niehues maps hanging up as art in my house :-D

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No, I just think whoever did that Blue Knob map, it's better artwork.

I am pretty sure that the Blue Knob trail map is mostly computer generated. There is basically only a couple of different trees that have been copy and pasted over the entire map. I am sure an artist was involved, but its not something that you can really compare to Niehues.

Ive boarded outer limits groomed many times also super star.

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ViciousV609 said:

Ive boarded outer limits groomed many times also super star.

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I'm not sure of the actual pitch, but Rumor at Gore seems steeper than Stein's or Ripcord at Sugarbush. Rumor is one of those trails that you sit and watch from below and see people slide out of control for 100+ feet.

mikec142 said:

I'm not sure of the actual pitch, but Rumor at Gore seems steeper than Stein's or Ripcord at Sugarbush. Rumor is one of those trails that you sit and watch from below and see people slide out of control for 100+ feet.

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FIS at Sugarbush is steeper than Steins and Rip Cord......

mikec142 said:

I'm not sure of the actual pitch, but Rumor at Gore seems steeper than Stein's or Ripcord at Sugarbush. Rumor is one of those trails that you sit and watch from below and see people slide out of control for 100+ feet.

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Having skied all of those, I'd say Rumor is definitely steeper. I don't visit Gore much, but is Rumor often groomed? I've seen it mentioned several times in this thread but never really thought of it as a groomer in my mind. When I last skied it, it was all bumped up (it was the spring though, so not sure if that's more typical or atypical for that trail).

slatham said:

FIS at Sugarbush is steeper than Steins and Rip Cord......

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Yes, although rarely groomed these days (which is just fine with me).

I believe the 2nd pitch on Ripcord is the steepest at SB. It also has the high pucker factor when groomed to flat ice and dull edges...That is where you see people slide all the way down.

Ovation is steep when its open

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cdskier said:

Having skied all of those, I'd say Rumor is definitely steeper. I don't visit Gore much, but is Rumor often groomed? I've seen it mentioned several times in this thread but never really thought of it as a groomer in my mind. When I last skied it, it was all bumped up (it was the spring though, so not sure if that's more typical or atypical for that trail).

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Not so sure about Rumor and grooming. I typically ski there once a year and when it's open, it's been groomed. The bigger issue is that it's not open that often. The headwall is nuts and often very icy. Due to the pitch, it's hard to keep snow on the headwall so they just close the trail.

mikec142 said:

Not so sure about Rumor and grooming. I typically ski there once a year and when it's open, it's been groomed. The bigger issue is that it's not open that often. The headwall is nuts and often very icy. Due to the pitch, it's hard to keep snow on the headwall so they just close the trail.

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A few years ago I was standing at the top of the trail and just adjusting my goggles or something, and my edges gave out (this is just from standing there mind you), and by the time I could stop myself I must have been 1/3 down. Of course, The Rumor was crazy icy that day and I have no idea why I decided to ski it anyway, but that gives an idea that the top portion is fairly steep.

BenedictGomez said:

A few years ago I was standing at the top of the trail and just adjusting my goggles or something, and my edges gave out (this is just from standing there mind you), and by the time I could stop myself I must have been 1/3 down. Of course, The Rumor was crazy icy that day and I have no idea why I decided to ski it anyway, but that gives an idea that the top portion is fairly steep.

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I've found myself in that same situation more than once. Every time Rumor is open I see people get in way over their head on that trail. I rarely ski it anymore as the conditions have to be perfect to enjoy it.

Outerlimits @ Killington, VT:
1002 vertical over 1892 length = 29.91*.
Boasts to be the steepest and longest run in New England.
626 vertical over 1064 length = 30.47*.
280 vertical over 432 length = 32.95*.
125 vertical over 154 length = 39.07*.
This goes to prove that Outerlimits has some very steep sections.

Lower Ovation @ Killington, VT: 468 vertical over 823 length = 29.62*
353 vertical over 553 length = 32.55*
146 vertical over 190 length = 37.54*.
113 vertical over 127 length = 41.66*.
95 vertical over 98 length = 44.11*. That's some pretty steep stuff.

Upper FIS @ Sugarbush, VT:
420 vertical over 741 length = 29.54*
174 vertical over 264 length = 33.39*
Black Diamond @ Sugarbush, VT:
473 vertical over 832 length = 29.62*
178 vertical over 264 length = 33.99*.
As a liftline, it is much narrower than Upper FIS and slightly steeper and longer.
They run side by side.
Rumble @ Sugarbush, VT:
735 vertical over 1723 length = 23.1*
224 vertical over 370 length = 31.19*

Ski Area Trail Name (Degrees) Length Vertical
Gore, NY The Rumor 28° 615′ 284′ top half
Gore, NY The Rumor 25° 1335′ 566′ entire route
Killington Double Dipper 31° 1207′ 625′
Killington Outer Limits 29.5° 2241′ 1105′ virtually entire length